Aug 26, 2022
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00:00:00 Speaker 2
I want to play the theme music.
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For this episode.
00:00:02 Speaker 2
OK, hold on one second here.
00:00:03 Speaker 2
We go. Come in.
00:00:03 Speaker 1
And you get in trouble.
00:00:12 Speaker 4
If you let the Indian Government plant spies in your office, give a little whistle.
00:00:21 Speaker 4
If you have too many bots, you can come up with your own metric MDA use.
00:00:27 Speaker 4
MDA use.
00:00:31 Speaker 4
When you want to incent your staff to not look at the bots, give them bonuses based on Dows.
00:00:37 Speaker 4
Based on towels.
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Always let your bonus.
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Be your guide.
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Second, when you’re on board and you see metrics that you don’t like, turn a blind eye.
00:00:52 Speaker 4
Turn a blind eye.
00:00:52 Speaker 3
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
00:00:53
Right.
00:01:01 Speaker 1
It’s getting submitted again.
00:01:03 Speaker 4
This is J. Cole.
00:01:04
At his best.
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Second rain.
00:01:14 Speaker 4
And here it’s at.
00:01:14 Speaker 3
2nd we open source it to the fans.
00:01:21 Speaker 4
Bobby Lashley is queen of Ken Wolf.
00:01:25 Speaker 3
This is going to.
00:01:26 Speaker 4
Be the story of 2022 for sure, right before I guess the big case between.
00:01:32 Speaker 4
Elon and Twitter is about to happen.
00:01:35 Speaker 4
I guess in October, at some point a Twitter whistleblower has come forward and dropped a nuke into the middle of.
00:01:43 Speaker 4
What was basically the story of the year in business, I think the former head of security, hired by Jack himself and incredibly well respected Peter Mudge Zatko.
00:01:56 Speaker 4
He’s referred to as much one of the most respected people in the security industry, again recruited by Jack.
00:02:03 Speaker 4
In 2020, after team of hackers remove, Remember took over all these verified accounts, Obama, Biden and anyone’s account as well. And he was head of security until January of this year, eight months ago.
00:02:16 Speaker 4
And he claims through explosive documents a huge document dump that query exact ignored.
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These Twitter executives ignored multiple security vulnerabilities.
00:02:27 Speaker 4
Now, why is this important?
00:02:29 Speaker 4
Well, obviously if Obama, Biden and other heads of State have their Twitter handles, they could say something that could cause an international incident.
00:02:36 Speaker 4
And that’s actually happened with hacks before.
00:02:40 Speaker 4
He also says they were not following even the most basic security protocols, like safeguarding staff access to core software.
00:02:46 Speaker 4
Of course, all of this comes after there were Saudi.
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Infiltrator spies essentially inside of Twitter.
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I mean, the list of things here that he is alleging is truly colossal.
00:02:59 Speaker 4
He dumped these documents to the Department of Justice, the SEC, Congress, and the Washington Post.
00:03:06 Speaker 4
He alleges that the vulnerabilities make Twitter extremely vulnerable to foreign spies, hacking and disinformation.
00:03:14 Speaker 4
And perhaps most importantly to the acquisition, the complaint also adds that Twitter’s policy towards fake accounts incentivized quote deliberate ignorance by undercounting spam accounts and even bonuses to execs for increasing users. But not finding bots. Sacks your thoughts. I mean on this we we talked about your subpoena.
00:03:36 Speaker 4
Or whatever that was.
00:03:37 Speaker 4
I I don’t know.
00:03:38 Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s a subpoena.
00:03:39 Speaker 4
This is big enough.
00:03:39 Speaker 2
That means that positioned.
00:03:42 Speaker 2
It’s uh.
00:03:42 Speaker 4
Oh, you’re you’re having a deposition?
00:03:44 Speaker 2
Yeah, but they want adeptly too, which is kind of amazing.
00:03:47 Speaker 2
But let’s let’s save that ’cause I think this is more more newsworthy.
00:03:52 Speaker 2
So you recall on a previous show we talked about this idea that if Twitter sues Elon to go after the kill fee or to go after damages, the question will very rapidly become.
00:04:05 Speaker 2
About whether Twitter has a bot problem, and we’ll discover reveal documents that show that Twitter executives knew or should have known there was a problem.
00:04:16 Speaker 2
And so I said, you know, the question will very rapidly become what do Twitter executives know and when did they?
00:04:20 Speaker 2
Know it.
00:04:21 Speaker 2
Now, I couldn’t have predicted that this whistleblower would come forward, but what he’s basically saying is not only is there a bot problem, there’s a cover up of the bot problem he’s accusing the company of positively Nick Sonian.
00:04:36 Speaker 2
Tactics here, so just to build on what you said, J.
00:04:39 Speaker 2
He said that Twitter executives don’t have the resources to fully understand the true number of bots in the platform, and their executives are dis incentivized to count them properly because doing so would negatively affect their bonuses.
00:04:50 Speaker 2
So I didn’t know that their bonuses were in any way tide to to this bot issue.
00:04:56 Speaker 2
So he’s basically making the Upton Sinclair argument that is hard.
00:04:59 Speaker 2
To get a man to understand a problem when his salary depends on not understanding it.
00:05:04 Speaker 2
So that’s part of what he’s saying, he’s also saying.
00:05:08 Speaker 2
That he’s accusing Twitter CEO Prague Arnold directly.
00:05:12 Speaker 2
Let’s say these are allegations, right?
00:05:14 Speaker 2
These were not proven yet, but here’s what he’s saying.
00:05:17 Speaker 2
Basically, he’s saying that Prague and his lieutenants repeatedly discourage him from providing a full accounting of Twitter security problems to the company’s board of directors. They basically prevented him from.
00:05:28 Speaker 2
Producing a written.
00:05:29 Speaker 2
Ward he also says the company executives ordered him to knowingly present Cherry picked and misrepresented data to create the false perception of progress on urgent cyber security issues.
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He also alleges that they went behind his back to have a third party consulting firm, their report scrubbed to hide the truth from the company.
00:05:50 Speaker 2
Problems, and as a result of this, he’s basically.
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Saying that Twitter executives committed securities law violations by making material misrepresentations and omissions and SEC filings and this.
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Is what got.
00:06:02 Speaker 2
Elon to to sort of commemorate Zack, those revelations with one of his trademark memes, which was the meme of Jiminy Cricket seeing give a little whistle from the film Pinocchio.
00:06:12 Speaker 4
Which I think becomes the cold open here.
00:06:14 Speaker 2
Things like this just became all cold open.
00:06:17 Speaker 2
So yeah, look, these are very serious allegations.
00:06:20 Speaker 2
They’re not proven yet.
00:06:21 Speaker 2
He’s working with the same group who worked with Frances Hagen.
00:06:25 Speaker 2
And I certainly questioned some of the things she was saying, so I’m not going to automatically accept on faith everything he’s saying.
00:06:34 Speaker 2
But I think by the same token, because he’s working with groups that back Francis Hagan, who was very much not on the free speech side of this debate, I.
00:06:45 Speaker 2
I also think you can’t just accuse this guy being an Elon stooge.
00:06:49 Speaker 2
This guy is a respected cybersecurity.
00:06:54 Speaker 2
He’s one of these like White hat hackers.
00:06:57 Speaker 2
He somebody wasn’t overly active.
00:06:58 Speaker 4
He’s literally, if you were to ask before all of this before.
00:07:01 Speaker 4
He worked at Twitter.
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Like who would you want as your chief security officer?
00:07:05 Speaker 4
You know, give me a shortlist, he’d be on it.
00:07:07 Speaker 4
For any company.
00:07:09 Speaker 4
One of the most respected people who points out vulnerable such MOBA or Freeburger have a question about corporate governance and what seems to be a dysfunctional relationship.
00:07:17 Speaker 4
Here you have.
00:07:18 Speaker 4
Jack hires somebody to solve the security problems.
00:07:21 Speaker 4
Then when presenting to the board, he’s not allowed to tell the truth.
00:07:25 Speaker 4
And the the board has given incentives to the management team.
00:07:29 Speaker 4
He’s a top five, top 7 member of the management team.
00:07:32 Speaker 4
So what’s going on here with this?
00:07:36 Speaker 4
Dysfunction, where he’s hired to tell the truth to fix the problems.
00:07:41 Speaker 4
The board is turning a blind eye to it.
00:07:44 Speaker 4
And maybe the management team is not giving the board the data they need to make better decisions.
00:07:48 Speaker 4
Who, how do you gain feeling this?
00:07:51 Speaker 4
Yeah, I’m not sure that it’s you can come to all those conclusions.
00:07:56 Speaker 4
Yeah, I’m not coming to the conclusion.
00:07:57 Speaker 4
I’m just my.
00:07:57 Speaker 4
Mind is wandering of how this I read the direct I read parts of.
00:08:02 Speaker 4
Of this whistleblower, I can’t claim to have rub it on.
00:08:05 Speaker 4
It actually isn’t super supportive of Ivan Casey.
00:08:09 Speaker 4
The most problematic thing that he points out.
00:08:12 Speaker 4
Is the following and this is a quote from his complaint.
00:08:15 Speaker 4
He said Twitter quote already doing a decent job excluding spam bots and other worthless accounts from its calculation of endou.
00:08:25 Speaker 4
At best, he’s alleging that Twitter omitted details, not that it lied directly.
00:08:31 Speaker 4
So if you kind of take that, I think what he’s really pointing his sights on, or as you said, disclosures that have nothing to do with the spam issue but have a lot to do with security.
00:08:45 Speaker 4
And that is something that typically in a in a public company board filters up through the audit committee. Typically that gets a readout right once 1/4 from the Rep from the right, people who talk about here’s our cyber security threats and vulnerabilities and then there is a readout from that committee chair.
00:09:04 Speaker 4
To the board.
00:09:05 Speaker 4
And then those are noted in your quarterly?
00:09:11 Speaker 4
In your quarterly reports that the Secretary.
00:09:15 Speaker 4
Right sound.
00:09:16 Speaker 4
So I think part of why this guy may not have had the audience is it was also written that he was a pretty terrible manager and there were hundreds of people in his organization.
00:09:28 Speaker 4
We were just kind of running here and there and so, you know, you guys have all been in a situation where we hire somebody who is an exceptional performer.
00:09:37 Speaker 4
And then we miscast that person by putting them in a point of leadership and being a team manager versus, you know, a single kind of like product or engineering expert.
00:09:49 Speaker 4
And it seems that there was a part of that at play as well, which decayed the ability for management to actually have enough faith and trust in this guy.
00:09:57 Speaker 4
To put him in front of a board.
00:09:58 Speaker 4
So and that’s all that’s just come up in the last few days.
00:10:00 Speaker 4
So I don’t know my my reading of the whistleblower claim is really that.
00:10:06 Speaker 4
This is the kind of thing that companies like Facebook and Google and others have had issues with the FTC in the past.
00:10:14 Speaker 4
They typically settle those claims.
00:10:16 Speaker 4
They pay a fine snap.
00:10:19 Speaker 4
But those things take three to five years to play out.
00:10:22 Speaker 4
So I suspect that this body of content more leads to that outcome then is a smoking gun that really helps Iran.
00:10:32 Speaker 4
In fact, this the fact that he’s actually affirmatively stating that their calculation of M Dow is actually.
00:10:39 Speaker 4
Pretty decent actually hurts the claim.
00:10:42 Speaker 4
That Iran is making.
00:10:43 Speaker 2
I don’t know if I agree with that actually.
00:10:46 Speaker 4
OK, great sex.
00:10:46 Speaker 2
So I agree with with Martha.
00:10:48 Speaker 2
The claims he’s making are far broader than the bot issue and far broader than the issues that Elon raised.
00:10:55 Speaker 2
So I agree with you about that jamath.
00:10:57 Speaker 2
However, I don’t agree that what he’s saying isn’t specifically helpful to events case.
00:11:03 Speaker 2
So what he said is.
00:11:04 Speaker 2
So this is from a CNN.
00:11:06 Speaker 2
Business article here.
00:11:07 Speaker 2
Said Zachos disclosure argues that by reporting bots only as a percentage of M DAU, rather than as a percentage of total number accounts on the platform Twitter obscures.
00:11:17 Speaker 2
The true scale of fake and spam accounts on the service, a new Sako alleges, is deliberately misleading.
00:11:24 Speaker 2
And then last year that continues.
00:11:25 Speaker 4
So wait, what you’re saying here sacks?
00:11:27 Speaker 4
Just to do the math, the denominator matters here.
00:11:29 Speaker 4
If the denominator was all accounts, the percentage of bots would be much higher.
00:11:33 Speaker 4
If the denominator is monthly, M Gauss, wherever they created it would be a much lower danamma.
00:11:39 Speaker 4
Later and the percentage would change I think is what’s that’s my rate of, yeah.
00:11:41 Speaker 2
I’m just, I’m just reporting what what CNN is reporting in terms of what Zachos alleging.
00:11:44 Speaker 3
OK.
00:11:47 Speaker 2
That’s why I get on the table, see them both, the story along with what other news, streams, washer, post.
00:11:50 Speaker 4
Washington Post.
00:11:52 Speaker 2
Yeah, basically what happened is this guy got fired in January and started working with these whistleblower lawyers.
00:11:57 Speaker 2
They put together a big report and then that report got leaked to the Washington Post and CNN.
00:12:02 Speaker 2
As well as people.
00:12:02 Speaker 2
On Capitol Hill, so that’s kind of what happened here, so CNN goes on to say.
00:12:07 Speaker 2
Zachot says he began asking about the prevalence of bot accounts on Twitter in early 2021, and was told by Twitter’s head of site integrity that the company didn’t know how many total bots are his platform.
00:12:20 Speaker 2
He alleges that he came away from conversations with the integrity team with the understanding that the company had quote no appetite to properly measure.
00:12:28 Speaker 2
The prevalence of bots End Quote in part because if the true number became public, it could harm the company value in it.
00:12:35 Speaker 2
Image so this is again the options declare problem that they’re.
00:12:39 Speaker 2
You know, it’s hard to get it made.
00:12:39 Speaker 4
I mean then.
00:12:39 Speaker 4
At a minimum, David, you have to agree.
00:12:41 Speaker 4
This guy is basically speaking on both sides of his mouth.
00:12:44 Speaker 4
I mean, these are both direct quotes from his complaint, so his complaint at best is very confusing.
00:12:49 Speaker 4
A little schizophrenic.
00:12:50 Speaker 4
Well, it’s also just coming out so it.
00:12:52 Speaker 4
Would be more data that comes.
00:12:54 Speaker 4
From but I don’t.
00:12:55 Speaker 4
I’m not saying that I believe.
00:12:56 Speaker 4
More disbelieving, but I’m saying if you if you look at the quotes, the quotes aren’t the smoking gun one would want if one was trying to look.
00:13:05 Speaker 4
I think we have to remember the lawsuit has really nothing to do with this problem.
00:13:10 Speaker 4
The lawsuit really boils down to one very specific clause, which is the pinnacle.
00:13:16 Speaker 4
Question at hand, which is there is a specific performance?
00:13:21 Speaker 4
Clause that Elon signed up to.
00:13:24 Speaker 4
Right.
00:13:25 Speaker 4
Which, you know, his lawyers could have struck out and either chose not to or, you know, couldn’t get the deal done without.
00:13:32 Speaker 4
And that specific performance clause says that Twitter can’t force him to close at 50.
00:13:38 Speaker 4
420 A share.
00:13:40 Speaker 4
And I think that the issue at hand at the Delaware Business Court is going to be that because Twitter is going to point to all of these, you know, gotchas and disclaimers that they have around this bot issue.
00:13:52 Speaker 4
As their cover story.
00:13:56 Speaker 4
And I think that really, you know this kind of again builds more and more momentum in my mind that the most likely outcome here is a settlement where you have to pay the economic difference between where the stock is now and 5420, which is more than.
00:14:14 Speaker 4
A billion dollars.
00:14:16 Speaker 4
Or you close at some number below $54.20.
00:14:20 Speaker 4
Cents a share.
00:14:22 Speaker 4
And I think that that is like, you know, if you had to be a betting person, that’s probably and if you look at the the way the stock is traded and if you also look at the way the options market trades, that’s what people are assuming that there’s a 7 to 10.
00:14:35 Speaker 4
Billion dollar swing.
00:14:37 Speaker 4
And if you impute that into the stock price, you kind.
00:14:39 Speaker 4
Of get into.
00:14:39 Speaker 4
The $51.00 a share kind of an acquisition price.
00:14:43 Speaker 4
Again, I’m not saying that that is right or should be right, that that’s just sort of what the market says Friedberg.
00:14:48 Speaker 4
What’s your take on this?
00:14:49 Speaker 4
You find this person credible?
00:14:51 Speaker 4
Highly credible and how damaging do you think the sales to Twitter independent of the?
00:14:57 Speaker 4
Do you also sell the company?
00:14:58 Speaker 4
I think there’s two tests.
00:15:00 Speaker 4
One is the materiality of what they’ve reported.
00:15:03 Speaker 4
So and really that comes down to just the.
00:15:07 Speaker 4
They endow reported numbers, so if there really is some misstatement knowing this statement based on what he’s saying.
00:15:15 Speaker 4
That’s an issue.
00:15:15 Speaker 4
The other one is the the duty of care, responsibility of the board.
00:15:19 Speaker 4
Meaning, did the information that he’s providing actually find its way?
00:15:23 Speaker 4
To the board.
00:15:24 Speaker 4
If it was blocked by management, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a judgment call on, you know, whether or not management was trying to deceive or whether they were trying.
00:15:34 Speaker 4
To investigate and.
00:15:35 Speaker 4
Identify more.
00:15:36 Speaker 4
If the information was brought to the board and the board did not act, then there’s an issue with the boards meeting their duty of care responsibility as fiduciaries of the company.
00:15:46 Speaker 4
And that’s really what he did.
00:15:47 Speaker 4
Pitch the board at some point or explained this liberal, but not in writing.
00:15:51 Speaker 4
Yeah, if what he’s claiming.
00:15:52 Speaker 4
They did not make its way to the board, then it’s hard to say that the board was in breach of their duty of care.
00:16:02 Speaker 1
If the CEO and if the if.
00:16:02 Speaker 2
I agree with that.
00:16:04 Speaker 4
The CEO blocked.
00:16:05 Speaker 4
It then there’s a question of what then the CEO could be fired, right?
00:16:08 Speaker 4
Then there’s a good case for the.
00:16:09 Speaker 4
CEO to be fired I.
00:16:10 Speaker 4
So I I see you.
00:16:11 Speaker 4
Know probably one of three.
00:16:13 Speaker 4
Scenarios here one is you know nothing happens to is that the board is actually violating there, which I doubt knowing this board.
00:16:20 Speaker 4
I mean knowing who’s almost board.
00:16:22 Speaker 4
It’s probably more likely that the CEO or some executives that block this information from getting to the board.
00:16:28 Speaker 4
The board then has to act now that they have the information and they say, hey, you block this information from getting to us, we need to act and maybe they removed the the the leadership that was responsible for that.
00:16:38 Speaker 4
Sax in terms.
00:16:38 Speaker 4
Of board governance.
00:16:39 Speaker 4
How much of this has to?
00:16:40 Speaker 4
Do with the fact that nobody really owned on the board.
00:16:43 Speaker 4
Any significant equity in print?
00:16:45 Speaker 4
Is that true?
00:16:47 Speaker 4
Yeah, I mean, I think.
00:16:48 Speaker 4
Beef on the board was the highest right he owned two or three.
00:16:51 Speaker 4
How much did silver like on Jaco and silver like egons on the board?
00:16:54 Speaker 4
I mean they’re they’re their owners on the board, right?
00:16:57 Speaker 4
This majority of this board, yeah, were low.
00:16:57 Speaker 2
Zach oh.
00:16:58 Speaker 2
Does it?
00:17:01 Speaker 2
To be clear, Zachary doesn’t seem to be pointing his finger at the board.
00:17:04 Speaker 2
In fact, quite the contrary.
00:17:05 Speaker 2
He’s saying he wasn’t allowed to present to the board in the amount of detail that he wanted in written form like he wanted.
00:17:11 Speaker 2
So in a way, he seems to be exonerating the board.
00:17:13 Speaker 2
He is pointing the finger at Twitter executives, and the timeline here is instructive.
00:17:18 Speaker 2
Basically, what happened?
00:17:20 Speaker 2
He was hired by Jack Dorsey back when Jack was CEO. This is in I think November of 2020, and at that time Jack had Zacko report directly to him.
00:17:32 Speaker 2
He actually took responsibility away from these issues, away from Prod, who was running engineering, gave it to zacko.
00:17:40 Speaker 2
Zach reported directly to him.
00:17:41 Speaker 2
Now Fast forward about a year or later.
00:17:44 Speaker 2
And Jack steps down, Progs become CEO, and then two months later, Prague fires zacko.
00:17:52 Speaker 2
And it’s in that time period that couple of months were Sacco alleges that he’s prevented from providing a written report to the board that Twitter executives instruct him to cherry pick that.
00:18:04 Speaker 2
They basically.
00:18:05 Speaker 2
Try to amend this third party consulting firms report in order to make the situation look better, in order to hide the extent of the company’s problems.
00:18:15 Speaker 2
So I think.
00:18:15 Speaker 2
This is I think the allegations, as far as they go, are mainly a problem for 200 executives.
00:18:20 Speaker 4
Management, yeah.
00:18:21 Speaker 2
And and look.
00:18:22 Speaker 2
I, you know, I don’t know the truth.
00:18:23 Speaker 2
These things, they’re just allegations.
00:18:25 Speaker 2
I think this guy is.
00:18:26 Speaker 2
A respected sort of white hat hacker and cyber community at the same time?
00:18:27 Speaker 4
Super. Probably.
00:18:31 Speaker 2
I don’t know.
00:18:32 Speaker 2
Maybe is a bad manager or maybe there are other reasons.
00:18:34 Speaker 4
Could be both, could.
00:18:34 Speaker 2
For removing him, you also you also get. Yeah, and we can’t ignore the fact that under whistleblower laws, if Twitter gets fined as a result of these allegations, he could get 30%.
00:18:35 Speaker 4
Be a bad manager and could be telling issue with that.
00:18:45 Speaker 2
So, listen, we we don’t know the truth of it.
00:18:48 Speaker 2
However, I do think that this whole thing is a windfall for Iran case.
00:18:54 Speaker 2
Because it does seem to provide substantial.
00:18:57 Speaker 2
Question for Elon’s assertion that there’s a bot problem at Twitter now.
00:19:02 Speaker 4
And a cover up about it.
00:19:04 Speaker 2
And a cover up about exactly and a cover up that would basically potentially invalidate the companies SEC disclosures on the subject.
00:19:13
Yeah, it’s explosive.
00:19:13 Speaker 2
Now there’s a question.
00:19:14 Speaker 2
There’s a question of law.
00:19:15 Speaker 2
And a question of fact.
00:19:16 Speaker 2
With regard to Iran’s case.
00:19:18 Speaker 2
So in other words, at the end of the day, what they’re going to be litigating in Delaware is a contract dispute.
00:19:24 Speaker 2
Is Iran contractually required to close and Elon’s assertion is I’m not because of this bond issue. So there’s a question of law where if everything Elon says about the bots is true, is he required to close?
00:19:38 Speaker 2
And I don’t know what the legal ramifications that are, but I think with respect to the question of fact, which is?
00:19:44 Speaker 2
Is Iran right about the bot issue?
00:19:46 Speaker 2
There’s no question that this is a bombshell that can only help his case.
00:19:50 Speaker 4
By the way, to your point the the stock was kind of price.
00:19:54 Speaker 4
Being in a 70% likelihood of this thing closing if you looked at just how all this stuff is trading and it went down to 60% once that whistleblower report came out and and people had a chance to digest it so.
00:20:06 Speaker 4
To your point, it definitely moved the goal posts.
00:20:08
A little.
00:20:08 Speaker 4
Bit towards toward in Elon’s favor.
00:20:11 Speaker 4
There is a, you know, an important thing to point out here which actually touched on. There is a whistleblower program that was created in 2012 and by the SEC as part of Dodd Frank I believe, or in part of the evolution of Dodd Frank.
00:20:25 Speaker 4
And they’ve given out now over $1 billion in whistleblower awards. These awards come out of the SEC fine.
00:20:32 Speaker 4
So you often wonder, like, hey, give this huge SEC fine. Who got it? Well, it turns out whistleblowers now are massively incentive because if you’re a whistleblower, it’s a career. And with Jason, Jason, you’re not. You’re not seeing the other part, which is.
00:20:45 Speaker 4
When you go to these organizations to now help develop a whistleblower loss.
00:20:49 Speaker 4
What has actually happened is you’re not whistle blowing moral or ethical breaches.
00:20:54 Speaker 4
Your whistle blowing things that can come back to an issue that the SEC and the FTC can make an issue up because that’s where the financial fines come and that’s where they’re showing iteration and motivation.
00:21:03 Speaker 4
So for example, like you could have a company that’s illegally, I don’t, I don’t know, killing.
00:21:09 Speaker 4
Dogs are horrible.
00:21:11 Speaker 4
But you know the whistleblower claim will be about, you know their disclosures in a 10K and how many dogs they.
00:21:16 Speaker 4
Killed to the SEC, right?
00:21:18 Speaker 4
In this case, yeah.
00:21:19 Speaker 4
How many, what did they tell the yeah.
00:21:21 Speaker 4
And that’s why he gave this to the SEC DOJ.
00:21:24 Speaker 4
The other interesting wrinkle here, and by the way, there’s been 2 the whistleblower program.
00:21:27 Speaker 4
I did a bunch of reading on it this week.
00:21:29 Speaker 4
They also don’t disclose who the whistle blowers are, so this isn’t a case where you have to come out like Francis did.
00:21:35 Speaker 4
Or Mudge did.
00:21:37 Speaker 4
A lot of these awards are being given quietly, so there and there’s been two rewards over $100 million and they don’t say.
00:21:44 Speaker 4
What the award was based on.
00:21:45 Speaker 4
You know who did, who the whistleblower is or who the company is.
00:21:49 Speaker 4
They’ve been doing this in a very stealthy way, and it seems to be highly effective.
00:21:53 Speaker 4
The big difference of England, Francis compared to this one is France is.
00:21:56 Speaker 4
Just a PM.
00:21:57 Speaker 4
You know who was not a top five or ten employees, not even close to that.
00:22:02 Speaker 4
This is a top five, top seven employee.
00:22:04 Speaker 4
Who had access?
00:22:05 Speaker 4
To the board and was giving reports to the board, at least orally.
00:22:08 Speaker 4
The final point on this I would like to get everybody up.
00:22:12 Speaker 4
Commentary on if it is true.
00:22:14 Speaker 4
That they essentially were forced.
00:22:18 Speaker 4
Twitter was forced by the Indian government to put a government agent on the payroll.
00:22:22 Speaker 4
I think agent means spy.
00:22:23 Speaker 4
How explosive is that?
00:22:24 Speaker 4
And then how many other countries?
00:22:26 Speaker 4
To me is the most important thing that is not getting nearly enough coverage.
00:22:29 Speaker 4
It’s like you had a government come to a company that’s based in America.
00:22:35 Speaker 4
And it’s not, it’s not the United States government that did it and basically said, we need you to place an agent of our intelligence services inside of your company.
00:22:43 Speaker 4
And it seems like they were like, OK, where do you want them to?
00:22:47 Speaker 4
Now Sachs, if that’s true, would I wonder if they would be required to tell the CIA and our government that their arms being twisted.
00:22:55 Speaker 4
Like this seems unprecedented to me.
00:22:58 Speaker 2
I don’t know it’s.
00:22:58 Speaker 4
And if they didn’t?
00:23:00 Speaker 4
I mean if true again this.
00:23:01 Speaker 4
Is all alleged so, but if true, sacks well.
00:23:04 Speaker 4
I think the bigger, but no, Jason, we should also ask the next one, which is if they did it to Twitter, which is kind of small.
00:23:10 Speaker 4
What about the big honey pots of users?
00:23:14 Speaker 4
Apple, Google, Facebook.
00:23:17 Speaker 4
Tik T.O.K, snap and what about countries outside of just India?
00:23:22 Speaker 4
What about the United States?
00:23:24 Speaker 4
No, I mean.
00:23:25 Speaker 3
What about the United States?
00:23:27 Speaker 4
Well, yeah, we have access to this stuff, you know, through the courts.
00:23:30 Speaker 2
This will be a process.
00:23:31 Speaker 2
There’s supposed to be in the process as you go to court and you get a warrant.
00:23:31 Speaker 4
Yeah, we have warrants.
00:23:34 Speaker 2
Not that it’s a high bar.
00:23:36 Speaker 2
Or, but a prosecutor has to go show probable cause and get a search warrant, present it to the company, and then they turn over the data.
00:23:43 Speaker 2
This you’re right, it’s explosive in the sense that what they’re saying is that these government agents, this is what Zacko says.
00:23:51 Speaker 2
According to Time magazine, the purported agents had direct, unsupervised access.
00:23:56 Speaker 2
To internal information, so.
00:23:58 Speaker 4
Which I think means DMS when the accounts are created.
00:24:00 Speaker 4
Who owned which account?
00:24:01 Speaker 4
The IP address is.
00:24:02 Speaker 4
That’s what I’m.
00:24:04 Speaker 4
They had access to which is.
00:24:06 Speaker 4
You do not want to.
00:24:07 Speaker 4
I’m guessing I’m guessing what it.
00:24:08 Speaker 4
Put anything in your.
00:24:09 Speaker 4
DMS folks, I’m guessing what it.
00:24:10 Speaker 4
Doesn’t mean is the Twitter menu in the cafeteria.
00:24:13 Speaker 4
Yeah, no.
00:24:15 Speaker 1
Yeah, not that.
00:24:16 Speaker 1
I mean, not that anybody been to that cafeteria?
00:24:18
In three years, anyway, I.
00:24:20 Speaker 4
Mean there’s literally $47 Oliver.
00:24:23 Speaker 2
Had they had direct unsupervised?
00:24:25 Speaker 2
Access to the salad bar.
00:24:29 Speaker 4
I think, I think you can.
00:24:30 Speaker 4
Basically, I think you have to make an assumption that.
00:24:33 Speaker 4
If, if, if.
00:24:35 Speaker 4
Governments are doing this to one company they’re doing.
00:24:37 Speaker 4
It to all companies.
00:24:38 Speaker 4
Yeah, but you would think.
00:24:40 Speaker 4
Right then I know, but honestly.
00:24:41 Speaker 4
Full would put up a fight or Apple would put up.
00:24:43 Speaker 4
A fight, but.
00:24:44 Speaker 2
Really using the purple fly when they went into.
00:24:44 Speaker 4
Who knows really?
00:24:47 Speaker 4
China the opposite.
00:24:49 Speaker 4
Don’t you think they do the opposite?
00:24:51 Speaker 4
Well, actually what they did was there’s actually even sneaker a way to do it.
00:24:54 Speaker 4
What Apple did when they went there is they said we’re not providing cloud services in China, but all the cloud services are provided by this third party company, so then they could have plausible deniability.
00:25:04 Speaker 4
Is about we’re not.
00:25:06 Speaker 4
But I mean this is I understand but.
00:25:06 Speaker 4
Example of.
00:25:08 Speaker 4
I’m asking you a question, do you think?
00:25:11 Speaker 4
Ford governments have put pressure on the largest American tech companies to place agents.
00:25:16 Speaker 4
And do you think?
00:25:17 Speaker 4
They exist in there.
00:25:18 Speaker 4
They’ve definitely put so the first part with little pressure.
00:25:21 Speaker 4
We see that obviously.
00:25:22 Speaker 4
Then the question is would our would, would Apple or Google do this and not inform the government or not put up a fight?
00:25:29 Speaker 4
I don’t know.
00:25:30 Speaker 4
Well, I think it’s fair to say that the Senate Intelligence Committee is going to hold Twitter and have like, a closed door meeting.
00:25:36 Speaker 4
And then the question is, you know, will they haul everybody else in?
00:25:39 Speaker 4
And it’s just.
00:25:40 Speaker 4
I I think what what is what is an?
00:25:42 Speaker 4
Important question is.
00:25:44 Speaker 4
Is this a dirty girl?
00:25:45 Speaker 4
Had a business tactic at the highest levels of every company and we just don’t know it and are typically not read into it and we would never know in the.
00:25:52 Speaker 4
Absence of this whistleblower thing.
00:25:54 Speaker 4
And my question is, do does our government know that our companies are acquiescing to these governments?
00:25:59 Speaker 2
Well, that’s where the problem for a long time actually. So there was an op-ed by Microsoft.
00:26:04 Speaker 2
It’s like you were talking about this a number of months back where the argument was, well, the government has to go get a search warrant to get your data from these companies.
00:26:11 Speaker 2
But these companies don’t put up a fight like they don’t.
00:26:13 Speaker 2
They don’t challenge the warrant at all.
00:26:16 Speaker 2
At why?
00:26:17 Speaker 2
Because they have an interest they have an interest in, in being cooperative, right.
00:26:20 Speaker 2
The article was basically saying that if you’re the subject of a search warrant, meaning they’re going to Google to get information about Jason, the governor had a duty to inform Jason so that your lawyers can go challenge it.
00:26:33 Speaker 2
And that was the legal change that needs to be made.
00:26:36 Speaker 2
We had this conversation I think last year.
00:26:39 Speaker 2
That is a change that should.
00:26:40 Speaker 2
Be made because in the old days.
00:26:42 Speaker 2
When the government would present you.
00:26:43 Speaker 2
With a search warrant, they.
00:26:44 Speaker 2
Have to go to you because.
00:26:46 Speaker 2
All of your documents were in your possession.
00:26:48 Speaker 2
They would be at your office or be at your house, so they would come knocking on your door, give you the search warrant.
00:26:52 Speaker 2
You could give it.
00:26:53 Speaker 2
To your lawyer, they could challenge it.
00:26:55 Speaker 2
That doesn’t happen anymore now the government disclosing.
00:26:57 Speaker 2
Gives a search warrant to a big tech company ’cause your data is.
00:27:00 Speaker 2
In the cloud, but their.
00:27:01 Speaker 2
Argument is you don’t own.
00:27:02 Speaker 2
That data the big tech company does.
00:27:04 Speaker 2
The big tech company has no incentive to fight the government and it is going to access all of your data and you even.
00:27:09 Speaker 2
Know that you’re being investigated.
00:27:09 Speaker 4
Well, say it’s not.
00:27:10 Speaker 4
It’s not an argument.
00:27:11 Speaker 4
You agree to that when.
00:27:12 Speaker 4
You sign their terms of service.
00:27:14 Speaker 2
Yeah, the current situation is bad enough that essentially you have very little protection or rights over your data.
00:27:21 Speaker 2
But what’s happening here, the allegation is even worse, which is that government operatives are working with the company in a way that provides some access without them even getting a search warrant.
00:27:29 Speaker 4
And they have fire hose, yeah, they can just spy on their ex-girlfriend or, you know, brother-in-law, whoever. They can just spy on a celebrity, do whatever they want.
00:27:31 Speaker 2
Right?
00:27:38 Speaker 4
I always I know was assumed that.
00:27:41 Speaker 4
This was happening covertly.
00:27:43 Speaker 4
Meaning like, look, if you’re a tech company and you know you have a very bright, I don’t know, pH.
00:27:47 Speaker 4
D on a visa and you hire that person to work in computer vision.
00:27:51 Speaker 4
I’m just making this up.
00:27:54 Speaker 3
How do you?
00:27:54 Speaker 4
Really know that that person is not an agent of another foreign country, and obviously the overwhelming majority are not, but once you have hundreds or thousands of people.
00:28:07 Speaker 4
You know that that you brought into your company.
00:28:09 Speaker 4
All it takes is one person.
00:28:11 Speaker 4
You know, for example, we just saw, I think, in Apple.
00:28:14 Speaker 4
There were two people that were just recently arrested for stealing all of Apple’s autonomous Auto.
00:28:22 Speaker 4
Data and documents and design schematics and all of.
00:28:25 Speaker 4
That stuff and.
00:28:26 Speaker 4
One of the guys was arrested right before he was trying to fly back to China.
00:28:32 Speaker 4
And so somehow they figured it out. They were able to get him. He was not a U.S. citizen, but then another guy that did it was AUS citizen, but both were of Chinese origin.
00:28:40 Speaker 4
It just goes to show you that the covert nature of industrial espionage is probably at an all time high, right?
00:28:49 Speaker 4
And I think that’s that’s a risk that every company has to manage.
00:28:52 Speaker 4
And do the best that they can.
00:28:54 Speaker 4
But this is different.
00:28:55 Speaker 4
This is an overt risk.
00:28:56 Speaker 4
This is just an overture and saying open the door, give us a badge where.
00:28:57 Speaker 3
They let him in, yeah.
00:29:00 Speaker 4
Coming in and This is why I think you have to deal with this case very delicately and.
00:29:04 Speaker 4
In a different way.
00:29:05 Speaker 4
Yeah, and for people who don’t know, Google does what’s called the transparency report.
00:29:09 Speaker 4
Twitter also has one.
00:29:11 Speaker 4
So they they do.
00:29:12 Speaker 4
Try to put out by category.
00:29:15 Speaker 4
Search, warrant, subpoenas, et cetera.
00:29:17 Speaker 4
Exactly how many warrants they’re getting, and the tech companies are at least trying to be transparent about it to the extent they can.
00:29:25 Speaker 4
But this is going to lead to a lot of people moving off of the cloud, I predict.
00:29:29 Speaker 4
We’re seeing, and in fact Apple is now storing your data and a lot of your privacy information locally on your phone, and if it’s encrypted, they can’t hand it over.
00:29:39 Speaker 4
As we saw with the the terrorist shooting, it was at San Bernardino where they couldn’t unlock the phone and they went to the.
00:29:45 Speaker 4
Israeli spy company to do it so.
00:29:48 Speaker 4
Yeah, I think, I think the companies here, at least in United States, want to defend their users, but this could be.
00:29:53 Speaker 4
Make people rethink the cloud, and I’ve seen a couple of pitches from.
00:29:57 Speaker 4
I think you’re confusing issues.
00:29:58 Speaker 4
Of course they’re going to try to defend their users in the United States.
00:30:01 Speaker 4
But what if you have, if you let somebody into a different country and but it’s not as if, it’s not as if those servers are not accessible?
00:30:07 Speaker 4
Yeah, I’m not confusing this year, I’m.
00:30:08 Speaker 4
I’m just sort by the United States here for a minute.
00:30:10 Speaker 4
I do think you’re going to see people buy many servers to put or rent their own cloud services that are encrypted and impossible to unlock, and so look for that trend to come or more companies to encrypt it.
00:30:23 Speaker 4
So we don’t have the keys from.
00:30:25 Speaker 4
So isn’t it crazy that, like, you know, we spent the last 20 years pushing the cloud, and the thing that may actually unwind the cloud is just the utter lack of privacy that we all have now?
00:30:36 Speaker 4
I’m just like.
00:30:37 Speaker 4
We just created.
00:30:38 Speaker 4
These massive honeypots where you know any state or non state actor can essentially just have.
00:30:45 Speaker 4
An incredibly detailed understanding of who you are.
00:30:48 Speaker 4
Yep, and why?
00:30:49 Speaker 4
Because we weren’t willing to pay 5 bucks a month for storage.
00:30:53 Speaker 4
Everything needed to be free.
00:30:55 Speaker 4
Part of it isn’t as part of the.
00:30:59 Speaker 4
A philosophy behind decentralized services that you know, two partitions distribute.
00:31:05 Speaker 4
Yeah, I mean I don’t like using that term, but just decentralized services where the data doesn’t sit on some centralized enterprise controlled servers, but the data is distributed either on a chain or in your phone or in some way.
00:31:19 Speaker 4
You know your identity, your information, your content isn’t isn’t centrally controlled.
00:31:27 Speaker 4
And that that fundamental principle may actually come to kind of bear over the next couple of years and decades that, hey, you know that model.
00:31:35 Speaker 4
Yeah, that that model is more appropriate for us, for me.
00:31:37 Speaker 4
And therefore, these services that are built that way are going to win in the market.
00:31:41 Speaker 4
The challenge is ultimately how do you finance those because those services, right, I mean they, they, they don’t have as much of it.
00:31:47 Speaker 4
To pay, you have to pay for them.
00:31:49 Speaker 4
You know, if you’re willing to pay and you know for.
00:31:51 Speaker 4
$10 a.
00:31:51 Speaker 4
Month for your privacy.
00:31:53 Speaker 4
Consumers are doing it here.
00:31:54 Speaker 4
But I I use the brave browser and VPN’s and these are becoming a major category. You hear it on podcast advertising all the time.
00:32:02 Speaker 4
Duck Taco.
00:32:04 Speaker 4
Brave and yeah, the PM’s.
00:32:06 Speaker 4
Aren’t just for hackers anymore.
00:32:08 Speaker 4
They’re like, real like.
00:32:10 Speaker 4
You’re bringing up something that I think that’s really important, which is that you know, over the last 20 years for all of us we’ve been building these products on the Internet.
00:32:18 Speaker 4
We’ve actually done a little bit of a disservice because we’ve basically created these expectations of consumer surplus.
00:32:24 Speaker 4
And we’ve never given people true sets of tradeoffs.
00:32:27 Speaker 4
We’ve always said, oh, you’ll get more.
00:32:29 Speaker 4
And it’s essentially free, like as we’re back into an advertising model.
00:32:33 Speaker 4
But that supports us being able to give you more and.
00:32:36 Speaker 4
More for free.
00:32:37 Speaker 4
But it turns out that it has some real consequences, and I do think that not enough of us actually understand why privacy is important.
00:32:44 Speaker 4
But when you start to hear these examples, and it’ll be important to see what the true details of this Twitter situation are.
00:32:52 Speaker 4
I think that.
00:32:52 Speaker 4
The pendulum starts to swing in the other direction where we say, OK, you know what?
00:32:56 Speaker 4
I’ll eat out at Chipotle one night a week less and instead I’m going to reallocate that money to making sure that I have, you know some amount of privacy for 25 bucks a month, you know, two or 300 bucks a year, which is a big number for, you know, maybe the average sale, but it’s it’s it’s it’s being packaged and bundled right now. So.
00:33:16 Speaker 4
You’re seeing the VPN’s, the anonymous search engines.
00:33:20 Speaker 4
In the browsers all starting to bundle, they’re bundling a set of suite of services and so I I think this is upon us now and consumers get it and they want to protect their privacy.
00:33:30 Speaker 4
So, and Apple has said this is going to be all reason for you to choose our cloud is that we’re going to put the local settings or to put your data on your phone?
00:33:38 Speaker 4
Encrypt it.
00:33:39 Speaker 4
We don’t have access.
00:33:40 Speaker 4
To it use use Apple for this reason.
00:33:43 Speaker 4
Of course, they’re also building a multibillion dollar ad business at the same time in Apple News and their App Store.
00:33:49 Speaker 4
So there’s that.
00:33:51 Speaker 4
I guess we should move on here.
00:33:52 Speaker 4
We’ll we’ll see what happens with this, the other big news story.
00:33:56 Speaker 4
That people are talking about this week and we talked about, I guess last year was student loan debt relief, interestingly, about 85 days before the midterms.
00:34:07 Speaker 4
Joe Biden has decided team laterale give 10 to 20 K of debt relief to people who have student loans.
00:34:17 Speaker 4
You have to have under 125K in yearly income as an individual, 250 as a household.
00:34:25 Speaker 4
And the student loan Pause program, which happened during COVID has been extended to the end of this year.
00:34:30 Speaker 4
I’m not sure why.
00:34:32 Speaker 4
For that made they explain why apparently it takes four months for them to turn on their COBOL written software that runs these loan servicing apps, and it’s it’s going to take it’s going to take four months.
00:34:41 Speaker 4
I wish the change.
00:34:46 Speaker 4
To restart the software that that calculates your lane balance and is.
00:34:50 Speaker 4
Able to prove to build, we’re so incompetent.
00:34:52 Speaker 4
OK, anyway you have to apply for this and as we know student loan is similar, debt is 1.7.
00:34:59 Speaker 4
5 trillion. This is going to cost us another 300 billion. Can’t imagine what’s going to happen with this 1020 carrot. People buying NFTS and stocks and.
00:35:09 Speaker 4
Housing and we’re going to keep the, I guess we’re making.
00:35:12 Speaker 4
Bloomberg had a workbook that said that.
00:35:15 Speaker 4
Look, we, we.
00:35:16 Speaker 4
Passed the Inflation Reduction Act, we talked about that last week, but one of the key pillars of that is that there.
00:35:22 Speaker 4
So 300 billion of expected revenues coming in and we essentially turned around and just gave that back to to a very, very small segment of the American population.
00:35:33 Speaker 4
Bloomberg Analysis was that it’s going to create somewhere between .1 and .3% extra inflation on top of all of that.
00:35:42 Speaker 4
And and so, you know, you really have to ask yourself, like what?
00:35:46 Speaker 4
What was the White House trying to accomplish?
00:35:48 Speaker 4
I think #1 they made a campaign promise, and so, you know, I.
00:35:52 Speaker 4
Think Biden needed to?
00:35:54 Speaker 4
Make sure that he fulfilled that.
00:35:57 Speaker 4
But nobody was really happy, right?
00:35:59 Speaker 4
The Progressives wanted something extreme.
00:36:01 Speaker 4
Everybody else said, you know, this is not really the right thing to do.
00:36:06 Speaker 4
Because it doesn’t really solve the root cause of what we’re dealing with.
00:36:10 Speaker 4
You know, if it would have been much better if you’d said, hey, listen, you know, we’re going to make this stuff expunge a bill on bankruptcy that would have been really useful.
00:36:19 Speaker 4
What happens if you actually tried to?
00:36:20 Speaker 4
I don’t know.
00:36:21 Speaker 4
You were from New York City.
00:36:22 Speaker 4
You worked your * off.
00:36:23 Speaker 4
You became a doctor.
00:36:24 Speaker 4
You have 300,000 in debt, but now you’re a, you know, a resident. When you make 126,000, well, you know, you’re, you know, you’re kind of solu here.
00:36:32 Speaker 4
So there’s a lot of folks that they probably wanted, wanted to help, that they didn’t help.
00:36:37 Speaker 4
Then there’s all the blue collar.
00:36:39 Speaker 4
Folks were like, why this give away only to these folks?
00:36:42 Speaker 4
Then there are the people that paid off their loans thinking, why did I pay?
00:36:45 Speaker 4
My loans off.
00:36:47 Speaker 4
Then there’s the incentives that it creates for colleges, which is, well, I’m just going to keep jacking up tuition because if they did it once, they may.
00:36:53 Speaker 4
Do it again.
00:36:55 Speaker 4
So all of.
00:36:56 Speaker 4
These things I think are sort of a little bit of.
00:36:59 Speaker 4
You know, it’s a little bit of a head scratcher.
00:37:01 Speaker 4
And then the last thing which we can talk about at the end is I don’t think this is what gets people out to vote.
00:37:07 Speaker 4
And I don’t think it’s what people care about ultimately at the polls, which if there is a political calculation to make that’s important and specifically.
00:37:15 Speaker 4
When you look at what happened last night in a bunch of these districts, every progressive candidate got absolutely shellacked.
00:37:25 Speaker 4
They lost across the board, and so the progressive talking points around this stuff fundamentally, when push comes to shove, doesn’t work for democratic.
00:37:36 Speaker 4
And then second is there was a really hotly contested seat which was a Democrat versus a Republican.
00:37:43 Speaker 4
I think it’s Pat Ryan versus this guy.
00:37:46 Speaker 4
Mark Molinaro, the Republican, he was leading the entire way, then this guy, 15149, and this is a very centrist now.
00:37:53 Speaker 4
Little down.
00:37:55 Speaker 4
So all the signs are like, this may not have been the smartest thing to do, but I don’t think Joe Biden had a choice because he made the promise and you have to live up to it Freeburg.
00:38:04 Speaker 4
Is this a fair thing to do?
00:38:06 Speaker 4
A smart thing to do, a cynical mean to do to buy votes?
00:38:09 Speaker 4
We’re waiting for a long musician.
00:38:10 Speaker 4
Is absolutely moronic.
00:38:14 Speaker 4
I think that the fact that.
00:38:17 Speaker 4
8,000,000 households are eligible for this relief.
00:38:21 Speaker 4
And 10 to $20,000 is relief is provided to a minority of Americans.
00:38:29 Speaker 4
Is exactly what Thomas said, which is kind of distorted politics at its worst.
00:38:35 Speaker 4
There is a $300 billion bill to BUS taxpayer and the ultimate beneficiary of that bill.
00:38:42 Speaker 4
While we all might want to say it’s the people that are getting debt relief that have taken out these student loans, that money was transferred to somewhere and you know where it was transferred to?
00:38:50 Speaker 4
University endowments and the profit and and the pockets.
00:38:55 Speaker 4
Of for profit educational institutions.
00:38:58 Speaker 4
If there were a free market.
00:39:00 Speaker 4
But for education in the United States and the government was not involved in the process of funding and supporting the educational infrastructure in this country, individual citizens would have the right and the obligation to make decisions about whether or not the money that they’re spending on tuition actually has a positive ROI for them by spending 10,000.
00:39:20 Speaker 4
Or $100,000. Am I going to make more than that much money back when I graduate? And unfortunately, we’ve lowered our citizenry.
00:39:27 Speaker 4
We’ve lulled our country into complacency where that decision and that calculus is no longer required because Uncle Sam is there to give you all the money you want to go to college.
00:39:37 Speaker 4
And the hungry, money hungry institutions that are there to educate you are taking that money, putting it in their endowments or in the pockets of their shareholders.
00:39:45 Speaker 4
And at the end of the day, it turns out that that decision may not have been the best decision.
00:39:49 Speaker 4
And we’re no longer holding ourselves individually to take responsibility for the decisions that we’ve made and we’re creating miss incentives.
00:39:58 Speaker 4
Because of the government programs that have been created.
00:40:00 Speaker 4
By telling people you need to get a higher education, the government is going to pay for it for you.
00:40:04 Speaker 4
And it doesn’t matter if it does or doesn’t work, because at the end of the day, if it doesn’t work, we’re just going to pay it back for you anyway.
00:40:09 Speaker 4
We’ll bail you out.
00:40:10 Speaker 4
And there’s a middle class in the United States of America that is going to end up paying the tax bill primarily because that’s where most tax dollars come.
00:40:18 Speaker 4
From for the minority of people that made a bad decision, and it’s not necessarily their fault they made that decision because the infrastructure in the system was set up to tell them.
00:40:29 Speaker 4
Go to college, get a good degree in terms of having a good life.
00:40:33 Speaker 4
You’ll make more money and the and the reality is that they aren’t and that they don’t.
00:40:37 Speaker 4
The ROI for many of these degrees have been negative.
00:40:40 Speaker 4
You make less money than you would have if you were actually in the workforce, learning and on the ground experience and progressing your career.
00:40:48 Speaker 4
You do not need a degree in philosophy.
00:40:50 Speaker 4
Or history or German studies to be able to go and be effective in the technology workforce or in the services workforce.
00:40:56 Speaker 4
And I think that we’re seeing that play out the biggest challenge now.
00:41:00 Speaker 4
And if we’re going to provide this loan relief and not reform the educational infrastructure and the and the requirements for whether or not an educational system is eligible for support from the federal loan program, we are not actually solving the fundamental problem.
00:41:15 Speaker 4
We are keeping this gravy train running and we’re not actually getting to the root cause of where this money flowing and this is.
00:41:20 Speaker 4
Exactly what happens? I will rehash my point that I’ve made 100 times. At the end of empires. Everyone sees that the money train is leaving the station and everyone jumps and grabs what they can, and that’s exactly what’s going on. We think that we’re a rich nation, that we’re becoming complacent.
00:41:35 Speaker 4
And this is unfortunate and it’s a really sad sign.
00:41:37 Speaker 4
I think we need to fix this educational infrastructure.
00:41:40 Speaker 4
We need to make eligibility requirements for whether or not loans are actually going to have a positive ROI for students.
00:41:45 Speaker 4
And then individuals ultimately need to be educated on that and made held accountable to whether or not they’re making the right decisions.
00:41:50 Speaker 4
For themselves sack.
00:41:51 Speaker 4
Should each American pay $1000 to let these 8,000,000?
00:41:55 Speaker 4
People off the hook ’cause.
00:41:56 Speaker 4
That’s what this is going to cost.
00:41:58 Speaker 2
No, of course not.
00:41:59 Speaker 4
There you go.
00:42:00 Speaker 4
If people say I don’t like you, I just gave you the softball softball.
00:42:02 Speaker 2
No, I mean, look, I think this is an issue where all four of us are on the same page.
00:42:07 Speaker 2
I agree with everything that Masa and what Freberg said.
00:42:09 Speaker 2
I mean, this bill is unfair or it rewards.
00:42:13 Speaker 2
Relatively well off college grads over working class people. It’s going to add 30 billion to the deficit. I mean, Joe Manchin should feel like a sucker right now because they just spent the 300 billion of supposed savings that he just agreed to.
00:42:28 Speaker 2
I just add it’s it’s unconstitutional.
00:42:31 Speaker 2
I mean that the Constitution expressly says no money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law.
00:42:39 Speaker 2
So I don’t understand how Biden can even do this by an executive order. I expect this to be challenged and take into the stream court, and I think is a very good chance it’ll end up like Biden’s other executive orders that are ruled unconstitutional.
00:42:52 Speaker 2
Remember, there was the vaccine mandate that he tried to do, and there was the eviction moratorium that he tried to do in there.
00:42:57 Speaker 2
Both ruled unconstitutional.
00:42:59 Speaker 2
I think there’s a good chance that.
00:43:00 Speaker 2
This will also be ruled.
00:43:03 Speaker 2
And then like.
00:43:04 Speaker 2
Like you guys mentioned, it’s inflationary.
00:43:06 Speaker 2
I mean, these are basically stimme checks, which we don’t need right now.
00:43:09 Speaker 2
And it’s going to make tuition go up because the more government subsidizes something, the more those providers have an incentive to raise the cost.
00:43:17 Speaker 2
So this is just a jump the shark moment I think for policy making.
00:43:20 Speaker 2
The question is why are they doing it?
00:43:22 Speaker 2
And I think it really speaks.
00:43:24 Speaker 2
To the nature of the Democratic Party today, which is the Democratic Party has.
00:43:29 Speaker 2
Shifted from being a blue collar sort of more economically populist party, economically left party to being a professional class that is college educated, culturally left more work party, and this is the ultimate example of that, where the Democratic Party is basically passing this pay off and give away.
00:43:50 Speaker 2
To their sort of world college graduates at the expense of their blue collar, the blue collar part of their coalition.
00:43:57 Speaker 2
And, you know, democratic political scientists that I like to read write to share a just today, he had a blog post called the Democrats Shifting Coalition where he pointed out that if you look at polling, if you look at the generic ballot among white college graduates, they favor Democrats by 12 points, whereas the white working class.
00:44:17 Speaker 2
Which is to say, non college voters. They favor Republicans by 25 points. So one of the biggest gaps in the electorate is college versus non college.
00:44:25 Speaker 2
That is the fundamental gap.
00:44:27 Speaker 2
It’s bigger than even, you know, than any other gap than racial gaps or anything like that.
00:44:32 Speaker 2
This is really the key gap of the electorate and.
00:44:35 Speaker 2
This is a payoff.
00:44:36 Speaker 2
To the basically to the new foot soldiers of the Democratic Party.
00:44:40 Speaker 2
If you think about it, the old stereotype of a foot soldier of the Democratic Party would be a union representative.
00:44:47 Speaker 2
They were the ones getting out the vote.
00:44:48 Speaker 2
That person has been replaced with sort of a world college graduate who joins the Democratic Socialists of America and they go out and the other ones.
00:44:56 Speaker 2
Pounding the pavement and doing the ballot harvesting.
00:44:59 Speaker 2
So there’s been a real change in what this party is about and I think that’s the explanation for why they’re passing this really horrible piece of legislation.
00:45:04 Speaker 4
The merged Chamath and memorabilia for the phase from Sarah Lawrence College.
00:45:10 Speaker 4
Have taken over the Democratic Party.
00:45:12 Speaker 4
Well, let me ask you.
00:45:13 Speaker 4
Let me ask you guys a question.
00:45:14 Speaker 4
Yeah, when you guys graduated, everyone.
00:45:18 Speaker 4
Went to undergrad.
00:45:19 Speaker 4
In Canada, right?
00:45:21 Speaker 4
I have no grad degree right now, but when you guys graduated college, what do you think the ratio?
00:45:28 Speaker 4
8020901050 fifty Zero 100 was the first two years of experience you guys had in the workforce.
00:45:35 Speaker 4
Versus the education and knowledge you you garnered in college.
00:45:39 Speaker 4
90 point 91st.
00:45:41 Speaker 4
90% off 1st.
00:45:43 Speaker 4
It’s cool at night.
00:45:44 Speaker 4
So I was working bars at school.
00:45:44 Speaker 1
And by the way, right?
00:45:46 Speaker 4
Well, I.
00:45:46 Speaker 4
We did 100 and zero. I went to school, University of Waterloo, that has a program called Co-op, where you have to alternate school and work.
00:45:55 Speaker 4
It makes an extra year to graduate, but you end up getting 24 months of full time work experience and and you graduated with a lot less that I graduated with half the debt.
00:46:05 Speaker 4
I would have otherwise.
00:46:06 Speaker 4
Saks, I mean do you feel the?
00:46:08 Speaker 4
Same. I mean you.
00:46:09 Speaker 4
Wouldn’t get a law degree that’s different.
00:46:12 Speaker 2
I mean, look, I think that it used to be the case that people would go get these degrees and they would take out these loans because there is a perceived ROI of getting this education.
00:46:22 Speaker 2
And I think one of the deeper issues.
00:46:23 Speaker 2
We have today.
00:46:24 Speaker 2
Is. It’s very.
00:46:25 Speaker 2
Unclear what the ROI is.
00:46:27 Speaker 2
I mean what is the return on getting a degree in you know?
00:46:31 Speaker 2
Social studies or art history or frankly some work studies at one of these prestigious universities.
00:46:37 Speaker 2
Their graduates go out or they’re not especially qualified for a higher paying job.
00:46:42 Speaker 2
And actually, I think one of the really revealing parts of of this executive order is not just the debt forgiveness part we haven’t really touched on.
00:46:49 Speaker 2
There’s another provision.
00:46:50 Speaker 2
That caps repayment levels. So basically it says that the monthly payments on undergraduate loans be limited to 5% of monthly income.
00:46:59 Speaker 2
Now, who is that?
00:46:59 Speaker 2
The payoff to that is the payoff to the art history major from Amherst.
00:47:03 Speaker 2
Who ends up being a barista at Starbucks, you know, or the Democratic political operative who works for the DSA?
00:47:11 Speaker 2
Gathering votes, and that is.
00:47:13 Speaker 2
Through the support of city.
00:47:13 Speaker 4
Or the OR the OR entity but.
00:47:15 Speaker 4
Let me give the counter argument to Saks and I want to hear your response to this.
00:47:18 Speaker 4
So the counter argument is, hey listen.
00:47:21 Speaker 4
The airlines got bailed out $4 trillion even, QV, a 2008 financial crisis, 700 billion, or something to that number.
00:47:30 Speaker 4
There is a caveat to that, which is.
00:47:32 Speaker 4
We’re saving money on that bill.
00:47:34 Speaker 4
I’m gonna respond. Yeah. OK, great. And then #3 hold on. And #3V2 airlines, banks and then the Trump tax break 1.5 billion.
00:47:43 Speaker 4
So why can’t a bunch of students get but 300 billion? That is the counterargument, everybody.
00:47:50 Speaker 4
We we don’t complain when.
00:47:52 Speaker 4
You know, rich people get ballots and the rich corporations and airlines zoo, but now we’re certainly complaining about this little pittance here.
00:47:58 Speaker 4
What’s your best response to that Freeburg?
00:48:00 Speaker 4
Former Treasury Secretary of the United States had a tweetstorm about this and he said, you know, the student loan issue arises, arouses passion.
00:48:00 Speaker 4
I’m not saying that’s my position, by the way.
00:48:11 Speaker 4
Here are some observations and some responses.
00:48:14 Speaker 4
There is no analogy with bank bailout student loans or grants that cost the government money.
00:48:19 Speaker 4
The bank bailouts were loans at premium interest in which the government actually turned a profit.
00:48:25 Speaker 4
And it’s important to think about all government services being infrastructure funding where you are funding some underlying tubing or mechanism that allows society and the economy to progress versus making up for the dollar mistakes or decisions that were made in the past.
00:48:42 Speaker 4
I also have issues not just with this.
00:48:45 Speaker 4
But with the issues of people buying homes in coastal cities that they get bailed out at the price of that home at the fair market price when uh.
00:48:52 Speaker 4
Tenants because they paid a premium, taking on the risk of a hurricane or a flooding event hitting their home.
00:48:58 Speaker 4
Why should the US government and the US taxpayer come in and say, you know what, I’m going to reimburse you for the full value of your home, which frankly should have been 50% of what you paid for it because it’s sitting on a coastline? And that’s a big problem that we generally have is we try and use the government.
00:49:13 Speaker 4
As a system for providing bailouts to make up for past investment mistakes made by individuals and.
00:49:19 Speaker 4
Businesses and I think that there’s a very clear.
00:49:21 Speaker 4
Distinction that you.
00:49:22 Speaker 4
Can make when you decide whether or not A and we use.
00:49:24 Speaker 4
The term bailout anytime they’re spending money.
00:49:26 Speaker 4
But the reality is, if you’re making an investment that has some payoff for economic growth and for people and for this country to progress in some measurable way, that is a good way to assess whether or not that is a reasonable investment.
00:49:40 Speaker 4
Versus saying, you know, what I’m covering someone else is liability.
00:49:43 Speaker 4
And when you do that, we’re actually burning money and we’re putting ourselves deeper in a hole as a nation and making it harder to do the former, to make the infrastructure investments and make the investments that allow us to move forward.
00:49:55 Speaker 4
And I think that that’s a really good way to clarify these things.
00:49:58 Speaker 4
And frankly, the list of things that people say, this is fair, this this is not fair, yadda yadda.
00:50:03 Speaker 4
Go down that list and ask yourself that question.
00:50:05 Speaker 4
Is it a positive ROI to progress our country forward or is it a bailout for people that had some liability they took on that they can’t cover?
00:50:13 Speaker 4
And I think so.
00:50:13 Speaker 4
All those things.
00:50:14 Speaker 4
That are unfair.
00:50:15 Speaker 4
A really important point. We cannot get caught up in the endless cycle of making up for other people’s unfair benefits that they got from this, from this.
00:50:25 Speaker 4
Moment, because at the end of the day, that’s all road to nowhere.
00:50:29 Speaker 4
We will burn through everything we have and everyone will scramble for money.
00:50:32 Speaker 4
And that’s the state that we’re in right now, where everyone raising their hand and they’re seeing $800 billion bike bills, $600 billion bills, COVID relief, Pandemic Relief, PPP loan relief. And everyone says, well, what about me? And at the end of the day?
00:50:46 Speaker 4
Everyone what about me is going to drive us into an infinite black hole that we will never?
00:50:50 Speaker 4
Get out of.
00:50:51 Speaker 4
And we have to change our mindset and take individual responsibility and recognize that the dollars that we’re spending have to have it all alive for progression of us as a whole.
00:51:00 Speaker 4
And this is a really dangerous place that we’re in right now.
00:51:03 Speaker 4
We can see if the education.
00:51:06 Speaker 4
OK go ahead sure your major routes in this question.
00:51:09 Speaker 4
I must monologue today I.
00:51:10 Speaker 4
Feel like a very.
00:51:11 Speaker 4
No, you’re doing great.
00:51:12 Speaker 4
I mean, half the fact that you have passion about something or there’s any.
00:51:14 Speaker 4
Milk that almond milk gave you a little feet up and down.
00:51:15 Speaker 4
Stray game.
00:51:18 Speaker 4
Maybe 4 cashews going.
00:51:20 Speaker 4
I mean, it’s really bugs this guys.
00:51:22 Speaker 4
This stuff really bugs me.
00:51:23 Speaker 4
I’ll be honest.
00:51:23 Speaker 4
At the dates.
00:51:23 Speaker 4
Take it.
00:51:24 Speaker 1
Easy on them like, yeah, like.
00:51:25 Speaker 4
Like this stuff just.
00:51:26 Speaker 4
Makes me feel like what?
00:51:27 Speaker 4
Are we doing it’s just did you?
00:51:29 Speaker 4
Did you put chia seeds in your Seattle said.
00:51:32 Speaker 4
It wasn’t the code you or was it the goji berries?
00:51:35 Speaker 4
Easy on the Gucci berries superfood right there for you if you have.
00:51:38 Speaker 4
If you have chia seeds in the morning, it’s a huge BM that’s about to hit you since.
00:51:41 Speaker 4
You’re just waiting for.
00:51:42 Speaker 4
The wave tenant, yeah, yeah.
00:51:44 Speaker 4
I mean for.
00:51:44 Speaker 4
I have two comments.
00:51:46 Speaker 4
Comment number one is I think the thing that shows that this could have been better is that it was completely silent on the ability to expunge.
00:51:55 Speaker 4
Your student loans in bankruptcy, the ability to discharge that is the single biggest change you could make to the system to be fair to everyone.
00:52:04 Speaker 4
Buddy and introduce a better ROI risk scoring calculation mechanisms and why?
00:52:11 Speaker 4
OK, so great.
00:52:12 Speaker 4
So this is a very good word agreement, but go ahead, you know, explain it, OK.
00:52:15 Speaker 4
In all debt markets, right, whenever you lend money, there is an assumption of risk that you’re taking, and that fits on a curve of highly likely to default.
00:52:24 Speaker 4
0 likelihood of default and that manifests in a risk scoring, so FICO score, but in the debt markets, right?
00:52:31 Speaker 4
And there’s these companies that provide that, Moody’s and S&P, they say you’re an investment grade debt.
00:52:36 Speaker 4
You know you’re a AAA plus, you’re a junk debt, so you’re, you know, you’re a triple B minus or whatever.
00:52:42 Speaker 4
And depending on where you are, you pay different rates.
00:52:46 Speaker 4
This is the same in car insurance.
00:52:48 Speaker 4
It’s the same in home insurance.
00:52:50 Speaker 4
It’s the same in health insurance.
00:52:53 Speaker 4
But in all of those cases, if you go upside down, you can declare bankruptcy and you can.
00:52:57 Speaker 4
Discharge those debts.
00:52:59 Speaker 4
Here we don’t have that idea.
00:53:02 Speaker 4
So if you go bankrupt for whatever reason, this debt will stay with you forever, which is deeply unfair.
00:53:07 Speaker 4
Second is if you actually flipped it and you could allow it to be discharged, then the companies.
00:53:13 Speaker 4
That provided these loans would be forced to risk score you.
00:53:17 Speaker 4
And the reason why that would be so powerful?
00:53:21 Speaker 4
Is that that would then.
00:53:22 Speaker 4
Create the forcing function for universities to actually deliver what they promise.
00:53:28 Speaker 4
And so who do you think is really against the ability to discharge in bankruptcy?
00:53:33 Speaker 4
It’s the universities and the university endowments, so you know if I were.
00:53:39 Speaker 4
The thing that I would have pushed more than a hand out to a few people, which by the way, didn’t even, you know, really scratch the surface of the debt that they had anyways.
00:53:49 Speaker 4
And it also served to **** *** everybody else.
00:53:52 Speaker 4
I would have focused on this bankruptcy issue because that is a meaningful, lasting change.
00:53:57 Speaker 4
And the 2nd.
00:53:58 Speaker 4
Is why don’t you go and actually get a large portion of this money from all these university endowments?
00:54:03 Speaker 4
Because the longer that these folks run what is effectively a multi trillion dollar asset management business.
00:54:13 Speaker 4
They’re always going to trade education, and we all know why that comes from it as a.
00:54:17 Speaker 4
Second class citizen.
00:54:19 Speaker 4
OK. And that is what I think is wrong. And if you were to just fix this one thing and then even the threat of actually confiscating some of the $50 billion that Harvard has or the $49 billion that you did?
00:54:32 Speaker 4
Because you would start with the Utah system as you would start to see the seeds of change where administrators would think to themselves, I have to deliver something value because these kids are getting loans, they’re going to be risk scored and I don’t want to be the person that’s like a low end borrower, right?
00:54:52 Speaker 4
I’m not serving.
00:54:52 Speaker 4
Junk paper to the market.
00:54:54 Speaker 4
I want to serve people that are going to go and really drive a huge autolyse.
00:54:57 Speaker 4
So then Sachs, you’d have an alignment between the people giving the loan and perhaps the value of the degree.
00:55:04 Speaker 4
And so you could say, hey, we’ll give loans to stem degrees at.
00:55:08 Speaker 4
A different rate.
00:55:09 Speaker 4
Or a different number of them, or a different amount of cash, or a different interest rate.
00:55:14 Speaker 4
Then we would for.
00:55:16 Speaker 4
I don’t know.
00:55:17 Speaker 4
Are you getting a degree in philosophy or like I did, psychology, right, you just give a different one based on the outcome that makes total sense to you?
00:55:21 Speaker 3
Right.
00:55:25 Speaker 2
Yeah, I’ve I’ve settled for a long time that we should be allowing student debt to be discharged in bankruptcy just like any other type of debt.
00:55:32 Speaker 2
Just like credit card debts, like other type stepped remotes, right?
00:55:35 Speaker 2
That would create some risk to the under writer so that they would have to actually assess whether this person getting that.
00:55:43 Speaker 2
I agree we’ll be able to repay the debt, but you have to ask the question, is it a bug or a feature that they’re trying to remove market forces and?
00:55:51 Speaker 2
I would argue that this is deliberate, that progressives in the Democratic Party don’t want there to be accountability.
00:55:58 Speaker 2
For what you.
00:56:00 Speaker 2
Learn in college.
00:56:00 Speaker 2
Why? Because, as I mentioned, it’s these colleges they’re putting out the foot soldiers of the Dark Party. I mean, listen, there’s a 37 point gap in party preference just based on.
00:56:11 Speaker 2
One variable which is whether you are professional class or working class, meaning college degree or no college degree.
00:56:18 Speaker 2
And that spans across different racial groups and other party lines.
00:56:22 Speaker 2
So the fact that matter is that if you go to college and get a degree, you are much, much more likely to become progressive.
00:56:31 Speaker 2
Now why is that?
00:56:33 Speaker 2
I think it’s because a lot of these colleges have basically become reeducation camps.
00:56:37 Speaker 2
I mean, these are the local madrassas.
00:56:40 Speaker 2
Yeah, of cultural.
00:56:48 Speaker 4
Like Harvard has been complicated.
00:56:50 Speaker 4
Who wrote that one for you?
00:56:52 Speaker 2
See that?
00:56:52 Speaker 2
Yeah, came up with that line.
00:56:55 Speaker 4
Yeah, so it’s like these.
00:56:56 Speaker 2
Places are working with crosses and.
00:56:57 Speaker 2
What do they do?
00:56:58 Speaker 2
They graduate these people?
00:56:58 Speaker 4
I love.
00:56:59 Speaker 4
I love it, I love it.
00:57:00 Speaker 2
New clerics of our work theocrasy these people go on to become field forcers.
00:57:04 Speaker 4
And then they go blow.
00:57:05 Speaker 4
Up buildings and it comes with side bombers.
00:57:06 Speaker 2
Hold on.
00:57:06 Speaker 2
So we know that it’s not, it’s not like violent like that.
00:57:07 Speaker 4
Yes, sacks, exactly correct.
00:57:11 Speaker 2
But listen, we we look down on some of these theocratic societies and we don’t.
00:57:15 Speaker 2
Realize how like them we are I.
00:57:17 Speaker 2
Mean look, these kids who graduate.
00:57:18 Speaker 2
From these Workman draws as they go off and.
00:57:20 Speaker 2
Become the speech police.
00:57:21 Speaker 2
I mean, they go enforce community moderation at social networks.
00:57:26 Speaker 2
They become the foot soldiers.
00:57:27 Speaker 4
So we just wake up.
00:57:28
Right.
00:57:29
Hold on.
00:57:31 Speaker 1
This is the best.
00:57:33 Speaker 2
It’s true, right?
00:57:34 Speaker 2
How else to explain that 30?
00:57:35 Speaker 2
Seven point gap.
00:57:37 Speaker 4
OK, get outlook.
00:57:37 Speaker 1
So so wait, so if.
00:57:38 Speaker 2
You’re the Democratic Party.
00:57:39 Speaker 2
Let’s listen.
00:57:40 Speaker 2
If you’re the Democratic Party, which is run by rote, progressive political operatives, why would you want to defund the factories?
00:57:47 Speaker 2
That are brainwashing more young students to basically.
00:57:50 Speaker 2
Join your ranks. Great.
00:57:50 Speaker 4
OK, I want to say two things.
00:57:52 Speaker 4
I want to say two things.
00:57:52 Speaker 4
One is I think that the University of a college degree has been used as a heuristic for progression out of blue collar or white collar.
00:58:05 Speaker 4
It says if you get ahold and J.
00:58:07 Speaker 4
Cole, I know you can speak to this because you know you come from a family.
00:58:12 Speaker 4
That that works blue collar and, you know, you got a college degree.
00:58:16 Speaker 4
But I think there is this, you know, kind of.
00:58:20 Speaker 4
Assertion in the United States and has now become, one could argue, a meme that if you get a.
00:58:25 Speaker 4
College degree, you’re no.
00:58:26 Speaker 4
Longer blue collar, now white collar.
00:58:28 Speaker 4
And the reality is that the quality of that degree varies greatly based on where you go, the major and the experience you get to accompany that degree.
00:58:37 Speaker 4
And as a result, you may not necessarily transfer it from blue collar to right.
00:58:40 Speaker 4
But you have the degree. You say you’re now white collar, then you’re working a blue collar job with $120,000 of debt.
00:58:46 Speaker 4
And so that’s that, that touristic isn’t true, and what we need to examine is why that heuristic is no longer true and what we can do about it.
00:58:56 Speaker 4
2nd secondly, I do want to make a defense for.
00:58:59 Speaker 4
College, I think that there there is an incredible benefit to broadening individuals exposure to topics, research and areas that they may not have naturally been interested in or that they will not necessarily get trained in.
00:59:12 Speaker 4
And there’s an important role that that educational infrastructure has in allowing us to be a more enlightened populace.
00:59:19 Speaker 4
We can understand history.
00:59:21 Speaker 4
We can understand philosophy.
00:59:22 Speaker 4
We can understand the things that shaped our world and our livelihoods and what makes us who we are today.
00:59:27 Speaker 4
And we can understand the sciences and the maths that affect us, so we.
00:59:30 Speaker 4
Can better understand the world and the people are.
00:59:32 Speaker 4
Around us.
00:59:33 Speaker 4
So there is a role, but the real question is how do you integrate that educational role into a technical training program or into a real world development program?
00:59:40 Speaker 3
Scale slogan.
00:59:41 Speaker 4
Skills that that basically make an educational system more than just a check box that doesn’t actually do anything for you, but gives you that exposure accompanied by maybe that’s the requirement.
00:59:53 Speaker 4
With, you know with federal loans is that there should be some skill or some more floor space.
00:59:56 Speaker 4
The minute I think.
00:59:58 Speaker 4
The minute I don’t want to lose the important breadth of exposure that college is meant to bring to people.
01:00:04 Speaker 4
Yeah, yes.
01:00:05 Speaker 4
And then that’s valid.
01:00:06 Speaker 4
Go ahead, trim off and then I’ll wrap up my public.
01:00:07 Speaker 4
No, I was just going to say I I.
01:00:09 Speaker 4
Really think people do not understand?
01:00:12 Speaker 4
And how how meaningful of a change it would be if you were able to just charge your student debt in bankruptcy?
01:00:18 Speaker 4
It is the most powerful market function we could create to make these universities more accountable.
01:00:24 Speaker 4
And I think if you guys look at my annual letter, I put a chart in there.
01:00:28 Speaker 4
But, you know, part of the problem that we have in these universities, these leading universities, is that beats have become great yards.
01:00:36 Speaker 4
OK, there is a gerontocracy.
01:00:38 Speaker 4
That runs these things with an iron fist.
01:00:41 Speaker 4
And amounts of time now 4050 plus years. The average person is in their mid to late 70s now who are who are the administrators of our leading institutions?
01:00:54 Speaker 4
They are focused on running up endowments and they are focused on the power and the influence that comes with their position.
01:01:01 Speaker 4
So I I implore anybody who has any ability to to actually achieve this change.
01:01:08 Speaker 4
There should not be a single logical person that should not support.
01:01:15 Speaker 4
The ability to discharge student debt in bankruptcy and you will identify the insider establishment.
01:01:22 Speaker 4
And by those that try to.
01:01:24 Speaker 4
Stop. You will expose them 100% and I I just want to put a closing being here for the people listening of young people making these decisions.
01:01:31 Speaker 4
When we all went to college as Gen X, Rs. College was nine, ten, $11,000 a year in tuition.
01:01:37 Speaker 4
And if you came out with 10 or 20K and you had an average job or salary of double or triple that.
01:01:42 Speaker 4
When you graduated, it seemed like a good deal.
01:01:44 Speaker 4
The ROI broke.
01:01:45 Speaker 4
Now market forces are at work here.
01:01:48 Speaker 4
I just want to point out two of them.
01:01:49 Speaker 4
Number one, there is a website grow with Google.
01:01:52 Speaker 4
You just look.
01:01:52 Speaker 4
Right now they’re allowing people to get professional certificates and this is free.
01:01:58 Speaker 4
And if you could pull up grow with Google, they’ve identified 5 different paths to jobs.
01:02:04 Speaker 4
One of them digital marketing and ecommerce ones.
01:02:06 Speaker 4
IT support data analytics, project management and UX design they have essentially looked at.
01:02:12 Speaker 4
What’s needed in the?
01:02:13 Speaker 4
World and aligned A3 to six months online course for * free.
01:02:18 Speaker 4
That’ll get you a job, and you, if you have executive function, the ability to sit down, shut up and learn can do this first before you make the decision to go $100,000 in debt and then get a $50,000 a year job here.
01:02:32 Speaker 4
These jobs average, you know, 607080 KA year and you can do it for free the next piece.
01:02:38 Speaker 4
But the private market is doing you and I looked into this trim off actually together IS as income sharing agreements.
01:02:44 Speaker 4
We were lucky enough to invest in a company called Merit as they are providing I sales for a college, Colorado Mountain College for nursing.
01:02:52 Speaker 4
What this means?
01:02:54 Speaker 4
They will give you your tuition for free. It’s educate now, pay later. If you go to one of these colleges for nursing, you get educated and then you pay it back and your captive paying back like 2 times whatever the loan is, 1 1/2 whatever the college decides.
01:03:08 Speaker 4
But they take the risk as opposed to Harvard with 40 billion.
01:03:11 Speaker 4
That takes no * risk.
01:03:13 Speaker 4
And so the free market.
01:03:14 Speaker 4
I think can also solve this, but you have to sit down with your kids and say let’s have an ROI calculation.
01:03:20 Speaker 4
AT20K in debt.
01:03:22 Speaker 4
You know, OK, fine.
01:03:23 Speaker 4
You got a philosophy.
01:03:24 Speaker 4
By the way, Sax, Sax, final, final question for you.
01:03:27 Speaker 4
I posted this thing in the group chat, but what do you guys think about this?
01:03:31 Speaker 4
You know, Republican tidal wave becoming a Republican ripple, that’s what.
01:03:38 Speaker 4
Yeah, that’s, that’s what that’s it was.
01:03:40 Speaker 4
It was an odd set of outcomes, don’t you think floor?
01:03:42 Speaker 2
Yeah, no question.
01:03:43 Speaker 2
I mean, Biden.
01:03:44 Speaker 2
Look, Biden has had a good run over the last few weeks.
01:03:47 Speaker 2
There’s no question about.
01:03:48 Speaker 4
I’m sorry my my audio cut out.
01:03:50 Speaker 4
One more time sucks.
01:03:50 Speaker 4
I’ll say it again.
01:03:51 Speaker 4
Say it.
01:03:52 Speaker 4
I’ll say it again.
01:03:52 Speaker 4
This Huntsman Medical report says that the red wave looks.
01:03:55 Speaker 4
More like a red ripple.
01:03:57 Speaker 2
No, I think it’s, I think it’s right.
01:03:57 Speaker 4
Got it. OK.
01:03:58 Speaker 2
Well, look, I think a couple of things happen.
01:04:00 Speaker 2
So first binding has got some wins legislatively.
01:04:03 Speaker 2
I don’t think it’s good policy.
01:04:04 Speaker 2
I don’t think this executive order is good policy.
01:04:06 Speaker 2
I don’t think the seven and 50 billion of climate that pretends to be inflation reduction act.
01:04:11 Speaker 2
I don’t think that’s good policy.
01:04:13 Speaker 2
But nonetheless, he has delivered some goodies for his his base.
01:04:17 Speaker 2
For his donors.
01:04:18 Speaker 2
And that has basically ameliorated this story in the press, that Democrats are in disarray.
01:04:23 Speaker 2
So you’re not hearing that.
01:04:24 Speaker 2
In addition, I think Brian’s got two things going for him, jobs and jobs. I mean Dobbs, there’s no question Dobbs has helped the Democrats quite a bit.
01:04:33 Speaker 2
Surveys motivated their base and then the jobs report has been.
01:04:36 Speaker 2
Stronger look I.
01:04:36 Speaker 2
Think overall, the economic data is mixed.
01:04:39 Speaker 2
Real wages are not keeping up with inflation, but jobs has so far been strong.
01:04:43 Speaker 2
So yeah, there’s no question that Democrats are in a materially better position.
01:04:46 Speaker 2
They were in June when it looked like a tsunami.
01:04:49 Speaker 2
That being said, the election still 10 weeks away and I think we’ll have to see what happens.
01:04:55 Speaker 2
And I think the economy is sold a pretty fragile state, so 10 weeks, so long time.
01:05:00 Speaker 4
Much love monster.
01:05:00 Speaker 2
But yes, you’re right that so once we have these listed right now, things are a lot better for Biden.
01:05:01 Speaker 4
Yeah, sacks.
01:05:02 Speaker 4
One of the most actives.
01:05:05 Speaker 2
And by the way, I do think the Republicans have some issues with candidate quality.
01:05:11 Speaker 2
And so there’s a couple of races that, you know, should have been more Sam Johnson than or not.
01:05:17 Speaker 2
But so, yeah, these are questions.
01:05:17 Speaker 4
What was the first word you used there?
01:05:19 Speaker 4
You said Dobbs and jobs.
01:05:20 Speaker 4
Was the first word thought channel.
01:05:21 Speaker 2
Dobson jobs.
01:05:21 Speaker 4
Abortion. Ah, got it.
01:05:23 Speaker 2
The dots case you.
01:05:24 Speaker 4
Got it, got it.
01:05:25 Speaker 4
OK, OK, but.
01:05:25 Speaker 4
I I just didn’t know.
01:05:26 Speaker 4
It perfectly weren’t.
01:05:27 Speaker 4
A lot of these wins for Biden bipartisan.
01:05:32 Speaker 2
Well, the Inflation Reduction Act was passed some straight party lines.
01:05:35 Speaker 2
This this college loan forgiveness is something they can’t even get through the sign.
01:05:39 Speaker 2
It’s being done as an executive order.
01:05:41 Speaker 2
The the things that were bipartisan and all of the things that are bipartisan was at Chips Act where they got some votes and and then there was the gun bill.
01:05:42 Speaker 4
Sigun staff.
01:05:47 Speaker 4
That’s great.
01:05:50 Speaker 2
So yeah, look.
01:05:52 Speaker 2
He did get some bipartisan wins.
01:05:54 Speaker 2
There’s no question about it.
01:05:55 Speaker 2
I think the Republicans, I think the Republicans got hoodwinked, basically, the Republicans foolishly.
01:06:03 Speaker 2
Went along with infrastructure and with the Chips Act.
01:06:06 Speaker 2
They should have forced by then to use up reconciliation on one of those bills and then they wouldn’t be able to get through the center of 50 billion inflation Reduction Act.
01:06:16 Speaker 2
So Republicans, you know as much of a sort of master strategist as McConnell.
01:06:23 Speaker 2
Is reputed to be.
01:06:25 Speaker 2
They really got snowed on this one.
01:06:28 Speaker 4
If it’s possible for somebody to.
01:06:31 Speaker 4
Masturbate themselves from the inside out.
01:06:33 Speaker 4
Jason is doing it right now.
01:06:35 Speaker 1
No, no, no, no.
01:06:36 Speaker 4
That’s true because.
01:06:37 Speaker 4
There’s a reason why we do this from the.
01:06:38 Speaker 4
Test app OK.
01:06:39 Speaker 2
I think what’s likely to happen in November is still that the Republicans win one of the chambers, probably the house.
01:06:44 Speaker 2
I think the Senate is so up for grabs.
01:06:46 Speaker 2
I don’t think it’s over.
01:06:47 Speaker 2
I think that’ll be important because Biden won’t be able to pass.
01:06:50 Speaker 2
Some of this legislation that’s I think destructive from my deficit standpoint, from a economic standpoint and we’ve talked about in this pod and I don’t think you guys are too excited about most of the legislation he’s passing.
01:07:03 Speaker 2
So, quite frankly, I’m just hoping for gridlock.
01:07:06 Speaker 2
I’d like to get back to a.
01:07:07 Speaker 2
Situation of gridlock, less spending would be certainly great.
01:07:10 Speaker 4
At this point, I mean.
01:07:11 Speaker 2
Will the federal government only?
01:07:11 Speaker 4
We’re trying to fight.
01:07:12 Speaker 4
Inflation here while we keep spending money.
01:07:14 Speaker 4
Over here it’s.
01:07:15 Speaker 4
Challenging him.
01:07:16 Speaker 3
If you.
01:07:17 Speaker 2
When I get back to fiscal responsibility, you gotta vote for gridlock.
01:07:22 Speaker 4
Or hopefully moderates come.
01:07:24 Speaker 4
Alright, we’ll let socks go anyway.
01:07:26 Speaker 4
We’re going to go to science anyway, and sax checks his e-mail during that segment.
01:07:30 Speaker 4
So buddy, there’s, there’s an article.
01:07:31 Speaker 4
Now, you know when we talked about client quitting, it’s now become this huge thing that everybody is talking about.
01:07:37 Speaker 4
Yes, and and what’s so funny about client quitting is just yet another example of Gen Z again Co opting.
01:07:42 Speaker 4
Something we’ve already done when we used to do it was called coasting and just be practical stick resting nuts, but now it’s called quiet quitting.
01:07:51 Speaker 4
Yeah, they’re all up in their feelings.
01:07:52 Speaker 4
Do we want to talk about the?
01:07:55 Speaker 4
Guy oh, I went here with the gut.
01:07:57 Speaker 4
So there’s a there’s a paper published.
01:08:00 Speaker 4
In the journal Cell.
01:08:05 Speaker 4
The paper was done by research team out of Herzliya, so I’ll I’ll take a step back. The human body is made-up of roughly 10 trillion cells.
01:08:14 Speaker 4
And there are also somewhere between 10 and 40 trillion bacterial cells that live in your body, primarily in your small intestine and and what people call the gut Biome.
01:08:25 Speaker 4
And so this is a population of microbes, bacteria that are basically chemical factories.
01:08:30 Speaker 4
They eat stuff up and they spit out chemicals and those chemicals.
01:08:33 Speaker 4
End up in our body and it turns out that the gut Biome, the bacteria in our gut can actually regulate our health in a very significant way and this was the basis of our company.
01:08:44 Speaker 4
Unique you guys can bleep that out if you want, which is now called SUPERGROUP and J.
01:08:47 Speaker 4
Cole, now you’ve tried the product which was?
01:08:49 Speaker 1
Super T is.
01:08:50 Speaker 4
Awesome, thank you sent me.
01:08:51 Speaker 4
I bought my unique that helped me with my weight loss and then I just got super good bars which are delicious.
01:08:54 Speaker 4
Of that business is that there is a known product, a molecule amylose, that you can feed the gut Biome.
01:09:02 Speaker 4
It doesn’t get absorbed by the human body.
01:09:04 Speaker 4
It sits in the gut Biome and the bacteria in your gut.
01:09:08 Speaker 4
Certain types of bacteria will eat it.
01:09:10 Speaker 4
Their population will grow another population of bad bacteria.
01:09:13 Speaker 4
Will shrink and the good bacteria release chemicals called short chain fatty acids that go into your blood and reduce your blood sugar and have a profound effect on your metabolism.
01:09:24 Speaker 4
And there will also no gut bacteria that can regulate your sleep, your mood, your anxiety, your energy levels and your glycemic control.
01:09:33 Speaker 4
The control of blood sugar.
01:09:35 Speaker 4
So it’s an incredibly important.
01:09:37 Speaker 4
Are you telling me that Sialis is a natural compound?
01:09:41 Speaker 4
Is it bacteria?
01:09:43 Speaker 1
Right.
01:09:44 Speaker 4
Are you saying?
01:09:44 Speaker 4
We have to cancel our sales prescriptions.
01:09:47 Speaker 4
Oh no.
01:09:49 Speaker 4
So guys, there’s, there’s, there’s a known, there’s a known principle that’s really deeply studied now in neurology, in neuroscience.
01:09:56 Speaker 4
Uh, called the gut brain axis that you can actually profoundly affect the disease and the condition of the brain and and neural conditions by changing the gut Biome.
01:10:09 Speaker 4
And so this is this is something that’s just being studied.
01:10:11 Speaker 4
The reason it’s it’s all.
01:10:13 Speaker 4
Coming to light in.
01:10:14 Speaker 4
The last few years is because of the cost.
01:10:16 Speaker 4
DNA sequ.
01:10:16 Speaker 4
Say we it used to be very, very expensive to sequence the DNA from your gut Biome, which you do by looking at your poop, and then, you know, looking at all the DNA that’s in the poop.
01:10:25 Speaker 4
And that tells you what your gut Biome would that carry in your gut that used to cost 1000 bucks.
01:10:29 Speaker 4
Now it costs.
01:10:29 Speaker 4
5 bucks.
01:10:30 Speaker 4
And so in the last couple of years there is this absolute explosion in research into the gut microbiome and more importantly.
01:10:37 Speaker 4
How the gut microbiome effects human health, so this particular paper looked at the effect that eating artificial sweeteners had on the gut Biome and on humans.
01:10:48 Speaker 4
And So what these researchers did is they they took 120 people. They gave them nothing, or gave them sugar, or gave them saccharine, or sucralose or aspartame and stevia, the four most popular artificial sweeteners.
01:11:02 Speaker 4
And then they looked at how their gut Biome changed, and importantly they looked at how their glycemic control.
01:11:08 Speaker 4
Their ability to control blood group glucose changed blood glucose.
01:11:11 Speaker 4
As you guys may recall, you know you always have glucose in your blood.
01:11:14 Speaker 4
The If you have over, you know, a level of 100, you know you and it persists, you can actually have really bad health effects and it causes high A1C over time, which is diabetes.
01:11:24 Speaker 4
And so high.
01:11:25 Speaker 4
Scores more fat when.
01:11:26 Speaker 4
You’re spiking and so.
01:11:28 Speaker 4
Yeah, when when you have high blood glucose, it’s actually damaging to organs, it’s damaging to cells, and overtime it can cause very significant deleterious effects to the human body.
01:11:37 Speaker 4
That’s what the disease of diabetes is and does is it’s about how like blood, high blood sugar, blood glucose.
01:11:43 Speaker 4
So what these guys did is they gave people soccer and sucralose, aspartame and stevia.
01:11:48 Speaker 4
They measured their blood glucose and their ability to convert sugar in the blood and absorb it and use it.
01:11:54 Speaker 4
And that’s called glycemic control.
01:11:56 Speaker 4
The way you guys, you guys have probably done this in a doctor, you take it twice in a control test.
01:12:00 Speaker 4
You drink a bunch of sugar water, and they measure your blood sugar every couple of minutes, and then they show the curve on how effectively your body can metabolize that glucose.
01:12:08 Speaker 4
And if it cannot metabolize that glucose, well, you have bad glycemic control and.
01:12:14 Speaker 4
Ultimately, that is.
01:12:15 Speaker 4
Diabetes and what they found was that if you eat saccharin and sucralose, which we always assumed were better than sugar, they actually adversely affect your ability to control blood glucose.
01:12:28 Speaker 4
Saccharin and sucralose in particular drive up your blood glucose and makes it harder for your body to metabolize.
01:12:36 Speaker 4
Glucose out of your blood.
01:12:37 Speaker 4
Aspartame and stevia were relatively benign.
01:12:42 Speaker 4
Oh, really?
01:12:42 Speaker 4
Because that’s what’s in Coke 0, that’s what.
01:12:44 Speaker 4
I drink there.
01:12:45 Speaker 4
You go and so so that was kind of the realization.
01:12:47 Speaker 4
And then they went deep and they actually analyzed the microbiome, and they showed that there were profound differences in how these compounds affected the microbiome.
01:12:56 Speaker 4
It turns out that sucralose, for example, is more likely not being absorbed by your intestines.
01:13:01 Speaker 4
It’s sitting in the intestinal walls and the bad bacteria are eating it, and the good bacteria that are supposed to be making short chain fatty acids and all these.
01:13:09 Speaker 4
Chemicals that regulate blood.
01:13:10 Speaker 4
Sugar I have a lower.
01:13:13 Speaker 4
And so we actually see a profoundly negative effect.
01:13:16 Speaker 4
From eating certain.
01:13:17 Speaker 4
Have you shipped your proof to test these?
01:13:21 Speaker 4
We have it.
01:13:21 Speaker 1
Like before, we just read it.
01:13:22 Speaker 4
Yeah, I’m saying.
01:13:23 Speaker 4
We just did a clinical trial at supercut by the way we found, and we published it, so it’s it’s public.
01:13:28 Speaker 4
But wait, at this link doesn’t even know this stuff exists.
01:13:31 Speaker 4
In all likelihood, you basically take a poop and you put it in a vial and you send it and they analyze your poop.
01:13:38 Speaker 4
I don’t mean to be graphic here, but have you done this before?
01:13:38 Speaker 4
I I’ve done it, yeah and and I think it’s look.
01:13:40 Speaker 4
How does this work?
01:13:45 Speaker 4
Here’s my issue, Jason.
01:13:46 Speaker 3
Yeah, I.
01:13:47 Speaker 4
Think and I want to.
01:13:48 Speaker 4
I want to say two things that I.
01:13:49 Speaker 4
Think are really important to say #1 is.
01:13:52 Speaker 4
Uhm, we know very little about what bacteria do what in your gut?
01:13:58 Speaker 4
How which?
01:13:59 Speaker 4
We’re starting to understand which ones are beneficial.
01:14:01 Speaker 4
Which ones make good chemicals that your body use and regulate yourselves and regulate your health?
01:14:05 Speaker 4
And remember, we have a symbiotic relationship with the bacteria in our gut.
01:14:09 Speaker 4
They’re making chemicals and they’re eating chemicals.
01:14:11 Speaker 4
The chemicals.
01:14:12 Speaker 4
They make affect ourselves, the chemicals they eat affect our body.
01:14:15 Speaker 4
So the way that we evolve our health is actually profoundly affected by our gut bio.
01:14:21 Speaker 4
So we don’t know enough yet to say definitively this bacteria is good, the spectrum is bad.
01:14:25 Speaker 4
We’re starting to have a good sense of that.
01:14:27 Speaker 4
By the way, just so yeah, just so you know what, just to double down on this, like there’s a form of therapy, it’s experimental, but it’s called faecal microbiome transplantation.
01:14:37 Speaker 4
FMT was but, you know, we are finding now that you can take feces from healthy individuals that have good, you know, gut Biome and good bacterial counts and if you put it.
01:14:48 Speaker 4
You know, injected into people that are suffering from a bunch of different diseases, it actually is looking like it’s curative.
01:14:54 Speaker 4
So Parkinson’s, Ms.
01:14:57 Speaker 4
IBS. Colitis.
01:15:00 Speaker 4
So it just goes to show you that this that it’s really.
01:15:02 Speaker 4
Good. Yeah.
01:15:03 Speaker 4
But but Bacterially understood to answer persons in testing where do you get poop through the bum?
01:15:11 Speaker 1
Well, you yeah, you could.
01:15:12 Speaker 4
Do it there or you can take a pill.
01:15:14 Speaker 4
So there’s a little pill and it’s got.
01:15:16 Speaker 4
The sequel stuff in it.
01:15:16 Speaker 4
And you swallow it and.
01:15:17 Speaker 4
It no somebody else is poop.
01:15:19 Speaker 4
You give your picture, ’cause, you said.
01:15:21 Speaker 4
I said it in a way so that we could see his reaction to in the bond and Jason was over.
01:15:28 Speaker 4
How does this impact Uranus?
01:15:30 Speaker 4
That’s whatever the audience wants to know Freeburg how picture.
01:15:33 Speaker 4
But here’s the other point I wanted to make, which ties towards him off, so this is really important to Jacob.
01:15:39 Speaker 4
So the gut Biome is an ecosystem, like a rainforest.
01:15:42 Speaker 4
There are trees that grow.
01:15:44 Speaker 4
Monkeys climb the trees.
01:15:45 Speaker 4
They poop.
01:15:46 Speaker 4
There’s Jaguars, Jaguars.
01:15:47 Speaker 4
Eat the monkeys.
01:15:48 Speaker 4
The trees grow into the.
01:15:49 Speaker 4
Monkey poop. It is a.
01:15:50 Speaker 4
Whole ecosystem, all these organisms.
01:15:52 Speaker 4
All these microbes regulate one another and feed one.
01:15:55 Speaker 4
Rather, and This is why probiotics do not work, probiotics are single microbe, single bacterial strains or fungal strains that we put into a pill and we swallow it.
01:16:05 Speaker 4
And just because that microbe happens to have some beneficial effect, you know, on its own in a in a Petri dish, it does not survive in your gut Biome because it’s like.
01:16:15 Speaker 4
Putting a house cat in a rainforest.
01:16:17 Speaker 4
The Jaguar will eat the house cap, the house cat is nothing to eat, etc.
01:16:20 Speaker 4
It doesn’t inoculate.
01:16:21 Speaker 4
Inoculate means that it survives thrives in the population growth.
01:16:25 Speaker 4
So when we take probiotics, it’s just passing right through our gut.
01:16:28 Speaker 4
It doesn’t stay there and doesn’t scan.
01:16:30 Speaker 1
Is it?
01:16:31 Speaker 4
And it turns out that the reason faecal microbiome fecal transplants work is because you’re taking the whole microbiome from someone elses gut, and you’re putting it in your gut.
01:16:41 Speaker 4
But it’s the rainforest. The.
01:16:42 Speaker 4
Whole rainforest and so all the organisms that are needed that self that regulate one another, all of the small molecules that that regulate that cross regulate each other, they all go in your gut.
01:16:51 Speaker 4
And then they actually change your entire gut, and your gut becomes the rainforest of someone elses gut.
01:16:56 Speaker 4
And so if someone else has a healthy gut meaning buying this.
01:17:00 Speaker 4
My illness can be Uranus, Jason.
01:17:03 Speaker 4
So we put our anuses together and then a monkey ghost between them and then the rainforest is, well, let me ask you, once the FDA has not approved any of this yet, when will the FDA be approving?
01:17:06 Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.
01:17:12 Speaker 4
These treatments, etc.
01:17:13 Speaker 4
Lot of click.
01:17:14 Speaker 4
There are a lot of clinical trials going on for fecal transplant.
01:17:16 Speaker 4
UCSF has a huge clinical trial for Ms as Thomas pointed out right now, where they are actually.
01:17:22 Speaker 4
Doing fecal transplants on patients without Ms into people with MS, and significant, you know, the early data of these sorts of treatments have indicated that there can be a very profound effect on the frequency of lesions appearing on the brain, which is one of the primary symptoms of Ms.
01:17:38 Speaker 4
And so these organisms, we don’t yet know why, but some of one rule will never.
01:17:43 Speaker 4
Need to understand this.
01:17:44 Speaker 4
Is it a?
01:17:44 Speaker 4
Five year, 10 year biggest startups.
01:17:46 Speaker 4
There’s billions of dollars.
01:17:46 Speaker 4
Invested, it’s it’s we.
01:17:47 Speaker 4
Know when will we know and have like.
01:17:49 Speaker 4
A game, so it’s already coming out.
01:17:51 Speaker 4
There’s no, it’s not like a binary switch.
01:17:52 Speaker 4
We’re discovering new things where they come.
01:17:54 Speaker 4
There’s a set of companies that are discovering what are called small molecules, so they’re finding.
01:17:58 Speaker 4
What are the little chemicals that those good bacteria are making in your gut and water?
01:18:03 Speaker 4
And can we turn those chemicals into?
01:18:04 Speaker 4
Bugs and so.
01:18:05 Speaker 4
They’re comfortable for drugs, other companies are saying, you know what this is a set of good bacteria.
01:18:10 Speaker 4
Let’s just put them in your body and figure out a way.
01:18:12 Speaker 4
To get them.
01:18:12 Speaker 4
To inoculate and say other companies are saying.
01:18:14 Speaker 4
Let’s do fecal.
01:18:15 Speaker 4
Transplants and other companies are basically just saying.
01:18:18 Speaker 4
Let’s change this.
01:18:18 Speaker 4
What we do at super gut let’s just change the feedstock for your gut Biome and you can actually evolve the rainforest.
01:18:25 Speaker 4
Into a different state by changing what you’re feeding the bacteria in your gut, and there’s certain molecules you can feed the gut bacteria, and then the populations will change into a more beneficial state.
01:18:34 Speaker 4
Why are people saying like drinking kombucha and fermented vegetables, Pickles, whatever?
01:18:42 Speaker 4
Apples are like great at.
01:18:44 Speaker 4
Fixing your Biome and then taking sugar out is good for your Biome.
01:18:48 Speaker 4
This is another thing I keep hearing, like even fermented foods.
01:18:50 Speaker 4
Are sick are making single plank claims like that because they have invested in a lifestyle and they want to defend their choices.
01:18:59 Speaker 4
It’s not to say, it’s not to say that those things are bad.
01:19:01 Speaker 4
Those are all good.
01:19:02 Speaker 4
But I think what we know and the fecal transplantation is the most simple way of of pointing this out.
01:19:09 Speaker 4
Is that it’s a broad scale, holistic approach that gets the best results.
01:19:13 Speaker 4
So as you know, like if you, if you had, if you’ve had a kid that’s had, you know, diarrhea, for example, right, you know, sometimes what we’ll do now is instead of giving the kid some sort of diuretic suppressant, what you actually give them is.
01:19:25 Speaker 4
Probiotic, right? And what you’re trying to do is to reintroduce healthy bacteria into that child’s stomach in a way that allows them to self manage and self heal while the bad, you know, diarrhea causing stuff kind of gets washed away as.
01:19:42 Speaker 4
An example.
01:19:43 Speaker 4
So will one thing be a cure all for you?
01:19:47 Speaker 4
I think that you should be very skeptical of those claims.
01:19:50 Speaker 4
That’s why everybody says a healthy, well balanced diet is really important, because we do not know conclusively.
01:19:57 Speaker 4
This is why, you know, I, I tend to believe that the broad holistic diet.
01:20:02 Speaker 4
Works the best in moderation, Yep.
01:20:04 Speaker 4
Because you just don’t know what you’re not getting.
01:20:06 Speaker 1
There yet, yeah.
01:20:07 Speaker 4
We don’t know that.
01:20:08 Speaker 4
You know.
01:20:09 Speaker 4
We don’t know.
01:20:09 Speaker 4
You can’t say conclusively that there isn’t a form of bacteria that is created specifically when you consume animal protein that is extremely helpful to you.
01:20:18 Speaker 4
We don’t know that that’s not true.
01:20:20 Speaker 4
Not now.
01:20:20 Speaker 4
We don’t know that that is true either.
01:20:22 Speaker 4
Let’s start.
01:20:23 Speaker 4
Yeah, and there’s a ton of research going on to try and.
01:20:25 Speaker 4
Figure that out right now.
01:20:26 Speaker 4
Have we figured out?
01:20:27 Speaker 4
Any of it.
01:20:27 Speaker 4
Though like, yeah, yeah, this whole.
01:20:29 Speaker 4
Ginger movement we could we?
01:20:30 Speaker 2
Take out.
01:20:31 Speaker 4
Could do 12 episodes on this.
01:20:32 Speaker 4
There’s so much amazing discovery happening.
01:20:34 Speaker 4
This is a good paper to highlight that which is like, hey, maybe avoid products that have sacraments equals in them.
01:20:40 Speaker 4
But my, my, my big thing is there is no diet.
01:20:43 Speaker 4
Whether it’s keto, whether it’s the South Beach Diet, whether it’s specific vegetarianism.
01:20:49 Speaker 4
Whether it’s veganism, nothing is a cure.
01:20:51 Speaker 4
All for what ails you.
01:20:52 Speaker 4
There is nothing.
01:20:54 Speaker 4
And by the way, one important point in this paper, one of the points that these guys highlighted which we see all the time in microbiome research is that there are what are called responders and non responders that within a population.
01:21:06 Speaker 4
It’s not like everyone that eats sucralose has the same negative effect.
01:21:09 Speaker 4
Some people have a really negative effect, and some people have a mild.
01:21:12 Speaker 4
Moderate to neutral effect.
01:21:14 Speaker 4
And so there’s a range of your particular Physiology, your particular gut Biome that will respond differently to different inputs into your body, and that’s all.
01:21:22 Speaker 4
Thing to figure out because people need to spend time.
01:21:27 Speaker 4
Eating and sampling to understand what makes you feel better or worse.
01:21:31 Speaker 4
This is why I have an issue with you know, the broad based claims of this path will solve all your problems, it’s just not true.
01:21:39 Speaker 4
You have to solve it for yourself and it’s it’s through iteration and then the the.
01:21:44 Speaker 4
Anyways, it does seem like non processed foods.
01:21:46 Speaker 4
Whole Foods, things that exist in nature that seems to be directionally correct as the way to go and then they fail.
01:21:52 Speaker 4
Stuff and the process stuff.
01:21:53 Speaker 4
Maybe less good for you.
01:21:55 Speaker 4
Well, this is This is why I think that there there is a little bit of a scam being run on people who want to be healthy.
01:22:00 Speaker 4
Like, for example, have you guys looked at the ingredient list on totally?
01:22:04 Speaker 4
You know, everybody loves.
01:22:04 Speaker 3
I’m bored.
01:22:05 Speaker 4
Nope, Nope.
01:22:06 Speaker 4
But have you looked at the ingredient list?
01:22:08 Speaker 4
Are you really telling me conclusively that that is healthier than milk?
01:22:14 Speaker 4
I mean, I could tell, I could argue.
01:22:15 Speaker 4
Both ways but.
01:22:16 Speaker 4
Yeah, I mean, I look at the chemicals, so look at the chemicals in a box of oatly.
01:22:16 Speaker 3
That’s part of point.
01:22:20 Speaker 4
I mean just drink water.
01:22:20 Speaker 3
Yeah, but I don’t really know.
01:22:21 Speaker 4
I guys, I can also tell you the chemical name for every chemical that’s in milk which is coming like all everything around us is chemicals.
01:22:28 Speaker 4
So, you know like anymore.
01:22:29 Speaker 1
And I understand I.
01:22:30 Speaker 4
Understand natural chemicals, but you understand synthetically made man-made chemicals that are explicit that have to be put on an ingredient list because of its danger in high quantities.
01:22:39 Speaker 4
Should be treated slightly differently in my opinion.
01:22:42 Speaker 1
Yeah, look, I.
01:22:42 Speaker 4
Mean all these?
01:22:43 Speaker 4
Just gave us 3 subpoenas.
01:22:45 Speaker 4
We’re all
01:22:46 Speaker 4
I hope everybody will see you next time on the old pot.
01:22:51 Speaker 4
I love you, bestie.
01:22:52 Speaker 4
Bye bye.
01:22:54 Speaker 3
2nd we open sources to.
01:22:55 Speaker 1
We’ll let your winners lie.
01:22:58 Speaker 4
Rain Man, David Saxon.
01:23:04 Speaker 2
The fans and they’ve just gone crazy.
01:23:07
Queen of kings.
01:23:11 Speaker 3
White, white hair winners live.
01:23:15
Bet these are.
01:23:18
My dog is in your driveway.
01:23:23 Speaker 3
Oh man.
01:23:24
My habit Azure.
01:23:25 Speaker 4
Will meet me at.
01:23:25 Speaker 4
Once we should all just get a room and.
01:23:27 Speaker 4
Just have it one big huge origin ’cause.
01:23:29 Speaker 4
They’re all this. It’s.
01:23:30 Speaker 4
Like it’s like the.
01:23:30 Speaker 4
Sexual tension, but they just need to release that out.
01:23:31 Speaker 3
Second, you’re about to.
01:23:35 Speaker 2
Be wet your piece, right?
01:23:39
Where did you get murky tzarfati?
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